Pilot Archive

Thread: There are no problems with the new ships

Ryuukon
Tue May 24, 2005 3:03 pm
#1

I think people are failing to realize one very important fact about MMOs and expansions. When an expansion is released, it ALWAYS brings new content and items. The items have to be superior to those existing before the expansion to create a draw for players to actually purchase the expansion. How would you feel if you had to do a quest for a new gun available on Kashyyk that was the equivelant of a looted CDEF pistol? Not very happy I'm sure.


The point is, the new ships can NOT be balanced around the old ones. From a storyline point of view yes, I'd agree that they should be balanced. As many many many people have said, the JSF is a 20 some odd year old ship that outperforms the A-wing, which is barely out of the design stages. From an MMO point of view though... You gotta have something better than you had if you want an expansion to be succesful.


I can see that most people are concerned with the PVP aspects of space. That's understandable. If the new ships however are not balanced withother new ships then yes there is a concern. But honestly what I keep seeing on these boards are people complaining that they got beaten by someone in one of the new ships while they were flying their old standard X-wing. If you want to stay competitive in PVP then you MUST get the expansions to get access to the new items and content. Here's a prime example... In Anarchy Online (another futuristic MMO for those who haven't heard of it) if you do not have the Shadowlands expansion you may as well not compete in PVP because of the Perks you get, which can give you new abilities as well as increasing stats. Someone with just the Shadowlands expansion may as well forget PVP as well because the ones with the Alien Invasion expansion have even better Perks than you, as well as superior weapons and equipment.


PVP is 50% gear and 50% ability in most games, though in space PVP it's prolly more like 30% gear 70% skill. In the end though if you run across someone of equal skill to you who is flying one of the new ships... You're going to lose. Get the expansion, get the new gear, then go back at it and see how things turn out.


BTW I'd also like to add before anyone can judge me on it... I do not fly any of the new ships, nor do I PVP often. I've done the quest for the Arc-170 but don't have the certifications to use it yet. So no I'm not afraid of losing something I don't even have. I'm just pointing out a fact of MMO life.



Ryuujin
Teras Kasi Artist - Swordsman - Ace Rebel Pilot
Master Shipwright - Master Commando - Master Smuggler

"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Euripides
Tue May 24, 2005 4:13 pm
#2

Not really related to the content of your post, but the subject immediately made me think of Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf.






"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."
- Euripedes, Greek Playwright (484 - 406 BC)

Ducimus
Tue May 24, 2005 4:22 pm
#3

1.) MMO though this maybe, MMO does not equal RPG.
RPG systems are turn based, JTL is twitch based. They are inheirantly different systems. one system skill is derived from your character template, the other skill is dervied from your ablities as a player. Hence the term, "twitch"

Anarchy online is a RPG, not a twitch game. Comparsions and contrats to standard MMORPGs do not apply to JTL. If you want a more closer comparision, you might want to look at the MMOFPS by the name of planetside. Its also a twitch game and introduces new weaponry. Most of which had to be "adjusted" for one reason or another.


2.)



Ryuukon wrote:
I do not fly any of the new ships, nor do I PVP often.



Hear that? That was the sound of your crediblity flying out the window.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 05-24-2005 04:25 PM



Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies

"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession
FataIity
Tue May 24, 2005 4:34 pm
#4

Ducimus, most of the players I've encountered with the new ships don't pvp at all. I've run into alot of them in deepspace farming faction and first thing that gets asked is "can i please be left alone" or "I'm only here for pve".





Arcain Draagon 4th MBH Ahazi Server -Summer 03'
ELITE DARK FORCES

"Death Before Dishonor"

Ryuukon
Tue May 24, 2005 4:53 pm
#5

Thank you Ducimus for bringing up Planetside. Yes it's a twitch game like JTL is. But let me ask you this... When they introduce the expansions for Planetside are the items more powerful/useful than what is already available in the game? Yes they are. Why? Because it creates incentive to buy. What are they at now, the 3rd expansion on Planetside? If you say all the items introduced are the same as in the original game with only cosmetic changes I'll say you're a liar.


Another thing I'd like to point out is I said MMOs, not MMORPGs, there's a big difference.


As I said, if the ships need balancing, it should only apply to balancing with the new ships. Otherwise if they balance them with the old ships in mind, what is the incentive for the JTL players to buy the expansion? There is none. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. In a perfect world we could all be happy with everything but this isn't a perfect world. SOE isn't going to balance the new ships to suit the players who are happy with the old ones. They want money, plain and simple. Buying a new expansion is equivelent to 2 months of game play with most expansions, especially with SOE. That's 2 months up front revenue.


And again, as I said in my original post from a storyline point of view the A-wing SHOULD be superior to the JSF. Logic dictates that the newer technology would be superior to a 20 some odd year old ship. But logic holds little sway in a fantasy setting such as this where it can have a direct impact on real life profits.


And Euripides... Hehehe, I thought the same thing after I hit the submit button, but left the title the same because I figured it'd grab peoples attention.



Ryuujin
Teras Kasi Artist - Swordsman - Ace Rebel Pilot
Master Shipwright - Master Commando - Master Smuggler

"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Ryuukon
Tue May 24, 2005 4:56 pm
#6

Oh, as a side note, my credibility has no bearing here. Ask anyone who has played MMOs to any extent and is familiar with expansions. Expansions = new content and new items. If the new items are useless or the same as what is already available, that creates doubt as to the reasons to purchase the expansion in the first place.



Ryuujin
Teras Kasi Artist - Swordsman - Ace Rebel Pilot
Master Shipwright - Master Commando - Master Smuggler

"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
NHGLethos
Tue May 24, 2005 5:00 pm
#7


you right in principle... but the two quest avaiable... oneforjust imps and the other just for rebels... the JSF and the arc.


the JSF easily beats a Arc 170, no question about it, with two pilots of equal skill.


If they was avaiable to both sides, like they should be, this wouldn't be a big deal, but they aren't, atleast at the moment.



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TUMOS_GHOST
Tue May 24, 2005 5:08 pm
#8

errr.... i think that there is a bit of physics defying concepts goin on with the new ships. lets take the x-wing for example. the new x wing has 80k more mass. With the basic formula of Force = Mass x acceleration, it is obvious that you need more force to accelerate it at the same level as a normal x-wing.but sadly that is not the case. I am sure that if they tuned down the ypr and speed of the heavy x-wing a bit, maybe 15% less, or to actual numbers, it would still be a worthwhile ship to get.

Message Edited by TUMOS_GHOST on 05-24-2005 08:10 PM





__.:FQ:. Inc.________
Totai & Fatoos



TUMOS_GHOST
Tue May 24, 2005 5:09 pm
#9



NHGLethos wrote:
you right in principle... but the two quest avaiable... one for just imps and the other just for rebels... the JSF and the arc.
the JSF easily beats a Arc 170, no question about it, with two pilots of equal skill.
If they was avaiable to both sides, like they should be, this wouldn't be a big deal, but they aren't, atleast at the moment.



I do not agree with that comment, if you have a crew experience with your flying style, and experience with using the ARC turrets, you will be a formidable enemy to anything





__.:FQ:. Inc.________
Totai & Fatoos



Shikkari
Tue May 24, 2005 5:12 pm
#10


Ryuukon wrote:
Oh, as a side note, my credibility has no bearing here. Ask anyone who has played MMOs to any extent and is familiar with expansions. Expansions = new content and new items. If the new items are useless or the same as what is already available, that creates doubt as to the reasons to purchase the expansion in the first place.



Introducing new items that make old items obsolete is not neccessary. Nobody is saying dont introduce new content and items etc. We just want there to be some logic and balance to it so it fits in the game. As it is now this just screws up the content IMO.

Introducing tier 1 ships that out perform tier 4 ships = lame and out of line with existing content

making JSF imperial only = lame and out of line with exisisting content

If the DEV's had a clue about content it would have been done differently.




.....




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Electro5
Tue May 24, 2005 5:41 pm
#11

They can be slightly better, they don't have to be better by leaps and bounds over the old.

Did you never consider that many people would buy the expansion for new content, not just so they can own anyone who doesn't have it and stand toe to toe with anyone who does? Or, maybe some people just want new stuff. I know I do. New stuff is cool, it doesn't have to be uber for people to use it.



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TUMOS_GHOST
Tue May 24, 2005 5:50 pm
#12



Electro5 wrote:
They can be slightly better, they don't have to be better by leaps and bounds over the old.
Did you never consider that many people would buy the expansion for new content, not just so they can own anyone who doesn't have it and stand toe to toe with anyone who does? Or, maybe some people just want new stuff. I know I do. New stuff is cool, it doesn't have to be uber for people to use it.



/hi5





__.:FQ:. Inc.________
Totai & Fatoos



Ducimus
Tue May 24, 2005 6:03 pm
#13



FataIity wrote:

Ducimus, most of the players I've encountered with the new ships don't pvp at all. I've run into alot of them in deepspace farming faction and first thing that gets asked is "can i please be left alone" or "I'm only here for pve".






Thats when i disable their reactor, and leave them alone. *evil grin*

I do not expect, nor do i give quarter while overt.



Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies

"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession
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