Pilot Archive
Thread: One shot killed!
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Fernslinger
Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:06 pm
#1
I was out last night just killing random stuff and I see another player. I initiate attack and he/she kills me in one shot! How is this possible? I thought there was some form of pvp damage reduction in space. BTW it was my first experience with pvp in space( and my last for a while).
shfire
Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:44 pm
#2
No, unfortunatly PvP is 1 shot 1 kill. I do believe its 3 shots 1 kill for MP ship's (haven't tested this out yet).
Ducimus
Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:05 pm
#3
only PvP damage reduction was by 25%. Meaning a player still does 75% of their potential damage.
Basically, (assuming my math is correct). lets take your stanard mediem fighter and equip it with two L7 looted blasters. For this example lets say their 2800 max damage ( a modest gun) with a 0.6 modifer on shields and armor.
2800 * .6 = 1680 damage per gun
* 2 guns = 3360 total potential damage
* 0.75 of that (remember, damage is only reduced by 25%) = 2520
So your bogey is doing 2520 damage with very modest guns. How bigs your shields again? 2400 tops is my guess. And, we havent even figured in Weapon overload droid commands yet
you know, i acutaly hope my math is wrong, cause man, thats gross
Basically, (assuming my math is correct). lets take your stanard mediem fighter and equip it with two L7 looted blasters. For this example lets say their 2800 max damage ( a modest gun) with a 0.6 modifer on shields and armor.
2800 * .6 = 1680 damage per gun
* 2 guns = 3360 total potential damage
* 0.75 of that (remember, damage is only reduced by 25%) = 2520
So your bogey is doing 2520 damage with very modest guns. How bigs your shields again? 2400 tops is my guess. And, we havent even figured in Weapon overload droid commands yet
you know, i acutaly hope my math is wrong, cause man, thats gross
KJFett
Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:12 pm
#4
add up your sheilds and armor, then subtract the dmg of say....2 teir 10 guns with 4200max dmg and 4600max dmg.....will your sheild, ship HPs and armor add up higher than 8800dmg? what about 11440 with these guns on weapon overload3? I know those are max damages for the guns, and the odds of them both hitting max in one shot are very slim, but with WO3, those guns would have an average of about 8K dmg....most peoples ships have 2500ship + 800armor + 2000sheilds = 5300..not nearly enough to stop 8K dmg. Shoot, the min dmg on those lvl10 guns would be enough to one shot that config with WO3.
Nicolas_Frost
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:00 am
#6
EnFERn0 wrote:
This is what makes space PvP so cool.
Best pilot wins.
While I do agree that the best pilot should win, and not the pilot who ground out the uber PvP template, like on the ground, I'd actually prefer about 3-5 shots for a kill. Makes the fights a little more interesting, than the chance that someone happens to get off a lucky shot.
Imaridril
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:01 am
#7
EnFERn0 wrote:
This is what makes space PvP so cool.
Best pilot wins.
No. In space PvP right now, a player's piloting skill doesn't matter much unless both players are flying the same size ship. If one player is in a large,heavy fighter, and the other is in a small, light fighter, than the player in the light fighter has a huge advantage, even if he's apoor pilot.Furthermore, even if both players are in the same size ship, most often one player takes the other player out before the loser even knew there was a fight going on. The only "pilotingskill" going on in fights like that is the "skill" of seeing who can jab away at the Target Nearest Enemy Player button often enough to make sure he doesn't get ambushed.
Trienco
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:30 am
#8
must be fun when youre busy fighting npc ships and one more red blip doesnt really draw attention (if you even look at the radar). getting off the first shot doesnt sound like skill, just an invitation to prey on distracted pilots or cowardly keep your distance until he IS distracted.
it even go for 10 shots with heavy guns and 20-30 for medium to light weapons. maybe 6-8 if its a fully armed b-wing that magically crammed in 4 high damage guns. so basically: all damage down to 10%, all npc shield/armor down to 10% and look in awe how player and npc ships suddenly dont seem to follow completely different rules, with npc weapons being ridiculously weak and slow and their shields having 10x the mass of their ships (i guess: they all just put in one mediocre lvl1 gun and fill the rest with shield and amor? but where is their absurd speed coming from?)
it even go for 10 shots with heavy guns and 20-30 for medium to light weapons. maybe 6-8 if its a fully armed b-wing that magically crammed in 4 high damage guns. so basically: all damage down to 10%, all npc shield/armor down to 10% and look in awe how player and npc ships suddenly dont seem to follow completely different rules, with npc weapons being ridiculously weak and slow and their shields having 10x the mass of their ships (i guess: they all just put in one mediocre lvl1 gun and fill the rest with shield and amor? but where is their absurd speed coming from?)
zut-oltah
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:38 am
#9
Imaridril wrote:
EnFERn0 wrote:
This is what makes space PvP so cool.
Best pilot wins.
No. In space PvP right now, a player's piloting skill doesn't matter much unless both players are flying the same size ship. If one player is in a large,heavy fighter, and the other is in a small, light fighter, than the player in the light fighter has a huge advantage, even if he's apoor pilot.Furthermore, even if both players are in the same size ship, most often one player takes the other player out before the loser even knew there was a fight going on. The only "pilotingskill" going on in fights like that is the "skill" of seeing who can jab away at the Target Nearest Enemy Player button often enough to make sure he doesn't get ambushed.
every word of this is completely true. but i still love deep space.
Coran_Sienar
Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:19 am
#10
Trienco wrote:
must be fun when youre busy fighting npc ships and one more red blip doesnt really draw attention (if you even look at the radar). getting off the first shot doesnt sound like skill, just an invitation to prey on distracted pilots or cowardly keep your distance until he IS distracted.
You do realize that in real life, this is EXACTLY how the vast majority of air-to-air kills are accomplished? The Red Baron was notorious for hanging out above the furball and picking off distracted enemy pilots.Richard Bong (the leading American ace of WWII) did the same thing and gained a lot of notoriety because he'd sacrifice his wingman to get that extra kill.
As for the pilots who are shot down, almost 90% of them never saw their attacker.
So, like it or not, JtLdoes a good job of mirroring the situational awareness management of a real life dogfight. As for how it pertains to Star Wars movies, when was the last time you saw a Tie Fighter or X-Wing take more than 2 hits to destroy? It's pretty funny that the Devs chose to stick to canon in this one aspect of Star Wars, when you think about it.
Trienco
Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:01 am
#11
would be a great argument, but unfortunately this is a game and not real life. when a grenade goes off close to you then you wont shrug it off and start shooting back, same goes for missiles or bullets straight between the eyes and yet you dont see anyone in the usual shooters dying from it. why? maybe its no fun and not balanced? there is already too much realism in swg with the whole "if it pays, it must not be fun"-mentality. but just because earning money in real life is tedious work it doesnt mean it has to be in a game as well.
nice as it is, that history fames the cowards and sneaky bastards, i would prefer playing a game, not an authentic ww2 simulation in space.
and no, not even ties blow up after 1 or 2 shots except for pvp (where EVERY ship pretty much does that and all the fluff bla about heavily armored bomber doesnt mean anything). and seeing how soe doesnt exactly care too much about pvp you can hardly talk about sticking to canon when the huge difference between pve and pvp looks more like a mess than on purpose.
sorry, but i prefer pvp to be about who has the better skills and knows how to use them and not about who is the sneakier jerk. if staying out of it and attacking from behind when its safe for you is what it takes to be famous ace in real life then im glad swg isnt about that kind of "heroes".
nice as it is, that history fames the cowards and sneaky bastards, i would prefer playing a game, not an authentic ww2 simulation in space.
and no, not even ties blow up after 1 or 2 shots except for pvp (where EVERY ship pretty much does that and all the fluff bla about heavily armored bomber doesnt mean anything). and seeing how soe doesnt exactly care too much about pvp you can hardly talk about sticking to canon when the huge difference between pve and pvp looks more like a mess than on purpose.
sorry, but i prefer pvp to be about who has the better skills and knows how to use them and not about who is the sneakier jerk. if staying out of it and attacking from behind when its safe for you is what it takes to be famous ace in real life then im glad swg isnt about that kind of "heroes".
Rhysen
Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:51 am
#12
Trienco wrote:
would be a great argument, but unfortunately this is a game and not real life. when a grenade goes off close to you then you wont shrug it off and start shooting back, same goes for missiles or bullets straight between the eyes and yet you dont see anyone in the usual shooters dying from it. why? maybe its no fun and not balanced? there is already too much realism in swg with the whole "if it pays, it must not be fun"-mentality. but just because earning money in real life is tedious work it doesnt mean it has to be in a game as well.
nice as it is, that history fames the cowards and sneaky bastards, i would prefer playing a game, not an authentic ww2 simulation in space.
and no, not even ties blow up after 1 or 2 shots except for pvp (where EVERY ship pretty much does that and all the fluff bla about heavily armored bomber doesnt mean anything). and seeing how soe doesnt exactly care too much about pvp you can hardly talk about sticking to canon when the huge difference between pve and pvp looks more like a mess than on purpose.
sorry, but i prefer pvp to be about who has the better skills and knows how to use them and not about who is the sneakier jerk. if staying out of it and attacking from behind when its safe for you is what it takes to be famous ace in real life then im glad swg isnt about that kind of "heroes".
Situational awareness is a primary skill for piloting. Jerking your joystick in randomly isn't the culmination of "skill". Increasing the damage reduction decreases the skill in piloting as the equipment fitted onto the ship increases in importantance. The differences between an excellent blaster and a RE'ed blaster made from weeks of farming loot from low tier NPCs becomes more pronounced.
What you want to play is an arcade shooter. I, personally, like knowing that if I don't maintain an awareness of surrounding space I could be vaporized without knowing what did it. Especially when the alternative means that regardless of the amount of skill I have someone that can spend 10 hours a day farming NPCs that require no skill to destroy to get the ultimate in loot with have a significant advantage.
Coran_Sienar
Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:44 am
#13
Trienco, I have to agree with Rhysen here.
Situational awareness is a key pilot skill. Since JtL is twitch-based, if you don't have situational awareness, there's nothing in the game mechanics that can help you. PvP damage could be decreased, but you know what will happen? People will zap you with their MKII Spacebombs when you're not looking and then you'll be demandingmore nerfs because you didn't pay attention to your environment.
It isn't "sneaky" to take advantage of someone's lack of situational awareness. It isn't "cowardly" to maximize your odds of survival against your opponent. (*cough* Buffs *cough* Composite Armor *cough*) And quite frankly, there isn't too much realism (with the notable exception of the economy) in this game. JtL PvP space combat is FUN when you can get 8 people or more in a furball. The problem is getting that many people to join a fight.
The current PvP damage modifier in JtL rewards people who keep up their situational awareness. It doesn't reward the looters. It doesn't reward the twitch players. And, quite frankly, it evens the playing field to a very large degree. Space is the only place where a bunch ofnewbies will kick the crap out of an unpreparedveteran.
EDIT: And on a personal note, I find it pretty offensive that you'd consider men who had the balls to take to the air during a war "cowards" when over half a million of them perished in the skies. Even the lucky ones who parachuted when their craft was stricken were rarely saved by their own side. Why don't you imagine what it's like to be in a cold, cramped cockpit for hours knowing that at any minute, you could be burned alive inside your craft? And then imagine having the courage to do it again the next day.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 12-29-2004 10:54 AM
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