Pilot Archive
Thread: POB Talk
JanuHull
Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:50 pm
#92
Just_Bri wrote:
Check it out, the Devs have put the house moving stuff on test center. Now to see if this can be extended to putting ships on the ground!
Oooohhh... 
Ehm, why not have a POB callable from your datapad as a temporary planetside structure?
Loki_Ashaman
Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:56 pm
#93
Because some of us would be willing to log in every day at server reset, place our POB and sit in it afk all day long till we got home from work? Oh, wait, that's not a negative.
JanuHull wrote:
Just_Bri wrote:
Check it out, the Devs have put the house moving stuff on test center. Now to see if this can be extended to putting ships on the ground!
Oooohhh...
Ehm, why not have a POB callable from your datapad as a
temporaryplanetside structure?
JanuHull
Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:02 pm
#94
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Because some of us would be willing to log in every day at server reset, place our POB and sit in it afk all day long till we got home from work? Oh, wait, that's not a negative.
JanuHull wrote:
Just_Bri wrote:
Check it out, the Devs have put the house moving stuff on test center. Now to see if this can be extended to putting ships on the ground!
Oooohhh...
Ehm, why not have a POB callable from your datapad as a
temporaryplanetside structure?
I've learned which systems are less abusive to riskstaying on board overnightwith an AFK macro running while I'm in my ship.
Dantooine is bad, but I've managed to go for 12 or more hours afk parked in the hangar of the Naboo and Corellian Spacedocks. At low speed, I can fly it all the way in and park the keel on the back wall, no NPCs have a shot at me because all they can hit is the invulnerable spot on the dorsal.
Loki_Ashaman
Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:22 pm
#95
JanuHull wrote:
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Because some of us would be willing to log in every day at server reset, place our POB and sit in it afk all day long till we got home from work? Oh, wait, that's not a negative.
JanuHull wrote:
Just_Bri wrote:
Check it out, the Devs have put the house moving stuff on test center. Now to see if this can be extended to putting ships on the ground!
Oooohhh...
Ehm, why not have a POB callable from your datapad as a
temporaryplanetside structure?
I've learned which systems are less abusive to riskstaying on board overnightwith an AFK macro running while I'm in my ship.
Dantooine is bad, but I've managed to go for 12 or more hours afk parked in the hangar of the Naboo and Corellian Spacedocks. At low speed, I can fly it all the way in and park the keel on the back wall, no NPCs have a shot at me because all they can hit is the invulnerable spot on the dorsal.
I'm not willing to sit afk in space all day, but having the ship parked on the group with the ramp down and public access for anyone to walk around. Yeah, that'd be cool.
Zeon_Zaku
Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:41 pm
#96
To me, POB ships need to be powerful monsters in combat. They should have thick shields, atleast 10k or more, that can take a beating, and souped-up blasters (6k damage or more) that can dish out the damage and fry a small fighter with ease.
POB ships should also be pilotable solo. Either lock the turrets forward when they are unmanned and let the pilot fire them (which is the best way, I think), give them AI control, or put a third weapon mount onto the front of the ship which the pilot can fire. A POB ship shouldn't always need a large crew to operate. But yes, a crew should increase its survivability.
POB ships should also be pilotable solo. Either lock the turrets forward when they are unmanned and let the pilot fire them (which is the best way, I think), give them AI control, or put a third weapon mount onto the front of the ship which the pilot can fire. A POB ship shouldn't always need a large crew to operate. But yes, a crew should increase its survivability.
When attacking things like the Stardestroyer, Corvette, and other large ships, and other POB ships, POB ships should be needed. They should be there as the main attackers, dealing out the damage while taking it as well. Fighters should be the support-- protecting the POB ship and taking out the enemie's turrets.
Right now, POB ships just aren't useful. Without a crew a lone pilot can't do anything, which is really stupid and really bad. A lone pilot should be able to fight pretty well.
But even with a crew, POB ships still aren't useful. They can't deal out decent damage, nor can they take much. I think their speed and manuverability is just fine the way it is, but their shields and weapons (and capacitor) need to be upped greatly. Either by greatly increasing the POB-only shields, weapons and capacitors, or by having the components get a boost when they're equiped onto the POB ship (the better the stats on the component, the higher the boost will be).
But even with a crew, POB ships still aren't useful. They can't deal out decent damage, nor can they take much. I think their speed and manuverability is just fine the way it is, but their shields and weapons (and capacitor) need to be upped greatly. Either by greatly increasing the POB-only shields, weapons and capacitors, or by having the components get a boost when they're equiped onto the POB ship (the better the stats on the component, the higher the boost will be).
Of course, POB ships should be playing a major part for Smugglers. Smugglers should be able to store cargo in "hidden" compartment (and store themselves in them too), illegally modify the ship, and a range of other stuff.
But, in short, I feel the single most important thing to a POB ship is increasing its survivability by a lone pilot. After all, it's really hard to find a willing crew to go up in a ship, because some of the jobs required are just plain boring and no one wants to do them. Letting the pilot control the turrets/front weapon or giving the turrets AI would increase their use dramatically.
Increasing their shield and weapon power comes a very close second.
Increasing their shield and weapon power comes a very close second.
Of course, giving them a "non-combat" use is good too. Like others have said, giving them the ability to land on the ground as a temporary structure. This would be quite fun.
Message Edited by Zeon_Zaku on 07-25-2005 03:42 PM
TomoRainer
Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:14 pm
#97
A general argument: POBs do take 4-5 crewmembers to make them work, but that doesn't necessarily mean they need to be as powerful or effective as 4-5 individual starfighters. I'm not even sure you could set up a system where a well-run POB could do all the same things as 4-5 well-piloted single-player ships and maintain balance.
So to me it's not an issue of making them a multiplayer duplicate of starfighters, but rather as a class of ships that can fill roles that starfighters can't physically handle. That level of personnel investment needs to be worth it. Not as a direct comparison to single-player ships, but as a result of being able to do certain things you just couldn't with an Eta-2 or a Krayt.
That mindset ties in pretty well with the current talk about being able to permanently customize them to play different parts. I'm not sure how likely we are to see such a thing happen, but the concept driving it--well, I think it's a pretty great one.
So to me it's not an issue of making them a multiplayer duplicate of starfighters, but rather as a class of ships that can fill roles that starfighters can't physically handle. That level of personnel investment needs to be worth it. Not as a direct comparison to single-player ships, but as a result of being able to do certain things you just couldn't with an Eta-2 or a Krayt.
That mindset ties in pretty well with the current talk about being able to permanently customize them to play different parts. I'm not sure how likely we are to see such a thing happen, but the concept driving it--well, I think it's a pretty great one.
Ducimus
Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:58 pm
#98
TomoRainer wrote:
but rather as a class of ships that can fill roles that starfighters can't physically handle. That level of personnel investment needs to be worth it. Not as a direct comparison to single-player ships, but as a result of being able to do certain things you just couldn't with an Eta-2 or a Krayt.
Ever the cynic that i be, can someone explain to me what a Eta-2, kryat, or most other starfighters can't do? Seriously, you can do anything and everything in this game with a freaking dunelizard if you wanted to.
JanuHull
Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:18 pm
#99
POBs should stop being thought of as starfighters. They're not. The fix for POB ships is going to be more than just a few upgrades to components. Right now, we need an Elder game that's even remotely at theirappropriate level of power. The ISD, Freedom Station, the Corellian Corvettes, the Gunboats, and probably all Tier 5 content needs a massive upgrade in power to even start to fix matters.Current PvECapital ships ought to have master pilots who are true aces white knuckled going in against them.That's your PvE endgame that should require a POB or a large number of starfighters and its just flat not there.
Secondly, we need to get it straight exactly what PvE is going to be for master pilots. Is it trivial because of our skill, or is it still a challenge because the AI's are worth the effort?If your concern for upgrading POBs is centered around powerful Elite components trivializing PvE, then you've got to find us a PvE endgame that isn't already trivial. See above.
This is why I believe major defensive upgrades are needed for POBs. POBs for players should be able to withstand the kind of damage that an NPC POB can because the endgame for fighters should NOT be the same endgame for POBs. They're the next level of ship, they need a higher challenge. There should be missions where POBsor groups ofstarfightersare needed because the kind of damage put out by NPCs in the spawns are either require ultrapowerful defenses to soakormultiple attackers to take it from more than one approach. A POB on a Tier 4 duty mission ought to have a crew bored to tears, its the functional equivalent of a group of Elite players farming nunas.
You can't think of POB ships in terms of anything less than Tier 5 content because we can't use them until we're in that league anyway. You really need to model player POB power after Tier 5 NPC gunboats, because on a day to day basis in PvE, that's their competition. Other ships that dish out the damage and take it in stride.Player POBs START at Tier 5 and go up from there. That's why the Deep Space capitals need major revisitation to up the difficulty, and why the Kessel Corvette mission to become a master should be a true induction to the kind of content that a Master Pilot will be expected to deal with.
Pairno
Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:29 pm
#100
I don't have the chance ATM to read all the previous posts, but i would like to be able to have more than 2 flyable POBs in my datta pad.
Chickenbone
Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:33 pm
#101
For POB defense, how about a slot for an electronic jammer. It would remove your ship from the radar for a few seconds and your ship can't be targetted while it is on. The enemy fighter will have to shoot you without the aid of his/her lead indicator while the jammer is on.
werehere
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:46 am
#103
while boarding why not just make the ship a vacume pressurize then board only way to survive is to buy a space suit and yes to do this you have to make one for wookiees too.
CasseusKanohbhi
Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:08 am
#104
Please understand that I am posting in the spirit mentioned by the correspondent of brainstorming ideas and leaving the logistics of programming to the developers. If you or someone you know has already had or posted any of the ideas that follow my sincerest apology for not citing them.
As this topic progressed it occurred to me that the problem with POB ships has more to do with their role in space than defensive or offensive capabilities. Several posters allude to the fact that we have been looking at POB ships as souped up starfighters or minor capital ships which they are not. So I went back and looked up the histories of the ships that were posted on the main site. These histories (specifically the ones for the YKL-37R Nova Courier and the VT-49 Decimator) describe the imagined roles these ships were to play. They talk about the ships being used to transport troops and supplies, race past blockades, maneuver in dangerous territory such as asteroid fields and fight off small groups of fighters. These are all noble and admirable duties to perform, however to my knowledge quests and missions such as these do not exist as of yet so the role these ships are envisioned to have really don't exist.
The missions we do have are primarily destroy waves of fighters or escort large ships through hostile territory and distract/destroy enemy fighters long enough for the large ship to get away. As it stands now in a POB ship we are the large ship that usually needs an escort so throwing us into the mix is not exactly an effective use of resources for escort duty. So what about destroying waves of fighters? Well interdicting squadrons is not the role POB ships were envisioned to have either. In fact, when faced with squadrons of starfighters POB ships are expected to book it into an asteroid field and rely on being able to dodge the huge rocks and have the smaller ones bounce off us and hopefully smash the starfighters that are pursuing us in a manner similar to the asteroid field chase scenes in Empire Strikes Back.
So where does that leave us? It would seem that a boost to maneuverablility is in order if we are expected to live up to our roll. However, since our roll does not exist a new one needs to be defined (as suggested by posters making POB ships more like gun or missile boats) or perhaps a way needs to be found to implement quests and missions that would accentuate the transport/evasion capabilities of these ships. My suggestion then, is to identify what POB ships are and are not meant for so that there is more or less a consensus before we decide what would and would not be an appropriate offensive and defensive compliment for these ships.
The limitation of my post so far is that it focuses on PvE combat with which I am more familiar. The problem of an undefined role does persist for PvP combat as well. In a PvP arena the larger ships are at present disadvantaged when faced with the smaller more agile ships. The best suggestion I could offer based on my admittedly limited experience in this area would be to create additional shield and armor zones to encompass fore, aft, port, starboard, dorsal and ventral areas. Adding in capital ship style system destruction which requires hitting specific areas of the ship could potentially extend POB life as the aggressor would have to punch through the shields and armor of all six areas to have access to the components they need to destroy. This would give the POB pilot some options when flying to rotate well protected areas of the ship toward the attacker rather than have a zone's defenses be easily penetrated. Perhaps a cool down timer on ship repair kits similar to the ones found on stim packs in the ground game could balance the crew's efforts against the attacking ship's ability to deal damage.
As this topic progressed it occurred to me that the problem with POB ships has more to do with their role in space than defensive or offensive capabilities. Several posters allude to the fact that we have been looking at POB ships as souped up starfighters or minor capital ships which they are not. So I went back and looked up the histories of the ships that were posted on the main site. These histories (specifically the ones for the YKL-37R Nova Courier and the VT-49 Decimator) describe the imagined roles these ships were to play. They talk about the ships being used to transport troops and supplies, race past blockades, maneuver in dangerous territory such as asteroid fields and fight off small groups of fighters. These are all noble and admirable duties to perform, however to my knowledge quests and missions such as these do not exist as of yet so the role these ships are envisioned to have really don't exist.
The missions we do have are primarily destroy waves of fighters or escort large ships through hostile territory and distract/destroy enemy fighters long enough for the large ship to get away. As it stands now in a POB ship we are the large ship that usually needs an escort so throwing us into the mix is not exactly an effective use of resources for escort duty. So what about destroying waves of fighters? Well interdicting squadrons is not the role POB ships were envisioned to have either. In fact, when faced with squadrons of starfighters POB ships are expected to book it into an asteroid field and rely on being able to dodge the huge rocks and have the smaller ones bounce off us and hopefully smash the starfighters that are pursuing us in a manner similar to the asteroid field chase scenes in Empire Strikes Back.
So where does that leave us? It would seem that a boost to maneuverablility is in order if we are expected to live up to our roll. However, since our roll does not exist a new one needs to be defined (as suggested by posters making POB ships more like gun or missile boats) or perhaps a way needs to be found to implement quests and missions that would accentuate the transport/evasion capabilities of these ships. My suggestion then, is to identify what POB ships are and are not meant for so that there is more or less a consensus before we decide what would and would not be an appropriate offensive and defensive compliment for these ships.
The limitation of my post so far is that it focuses on PvE combat with which I am more familiar. The problem of an undefined role does persist for PvP combat as well. In a PvP arena the larger ships are at present disadvantaged when faced with the smaller more agile ships. The best suggestion I could offer based on my admittedly limited experience in this area would be to create additional shield and armor zones to encompass fore, aft, port, starboard, dorsal and ventral areas. Adding in capital ship style system destruction which requires hitting specific areas of the ship could potentially extend POB life as the aggressor would have to punch through the shields and armor of all six areas to have access to the components they need to destroy. This would give the POB pilot some options when flying to rotate well protected areas of the ship toward the attacker rather than have a zone's defenses be easily penetrated. Perhaps a cool down timer on ship repair kits similar to the ones found on stim packs in the ground game could balance the crew's efforts against the attacking ship's ability to deal damage.