Pilot Archive
Thread: Why doesn't space-PvP have damage mitigation?
Yeah I adjusted my ship(s) for a droid program fix
It's actually quite a deal more fun, for me. Capacitor actually goes down and i have to control my firing. More of a challenge than effortlessly firing away nonstop
quadpers0n wrote:
ah forgot about the a-wings. that jogged my memory. that part was rather annoying now that i think about it. going 2332 might have been a better choice for the overload 3 commands, but i'm still sure there's something on the ship that can give to accomodate equipment to bust those a-wings if you have trouble this time around.
2323..... unless you meant bomber strike meekui =P
JanuHull wrote:
I bet you miss your 90% composite, don't you?
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
I really hate the fools who say we need damage mitigation in space.
Have you never seen a Star Wars movie, ever?
I suggest you go watch them.
The Xwings and Ywings in the Death Star trench didnt take 50 shots to die - they took one or two.
If you cant handle the combat, then dont fly, or youll die. Thats war, it isnt fair and isnt pretty, but, at least it is like it is in the films!
Even after a couple of days, I still have to reply to this.
quadpers0n wrote:
how do you get a cap big enough to run WO4 on RE'd 10 guns? i've looked around at capacitors and so far i haven't seen any, even RE'd lvl 10s that can withstand a 30 energy per shot gun. if engine overload 4 math holds true for WO4 you'd be doing 300 a shot. what capacitor in existance can have any decent output with that? even if you are using a borstel that's still 150 a shot.
is my math off here? x10 sounds like a bit much but i seem to remember getting about 10 shots off with the best cap i've ever RE'd.
i agree with ducimus, a WO3 fix will substantially alter so much that most arguements are pointless to probably even make until that fix goes in. it's going to change everything in a big big way. maybe not overnight...
Which is exactly why I use CapOverload4 and high level crafted capacitors with 50+ regen. With a crafted Type III capacitor (790 energy, 47 regen)and a single Advanced Blaster (27 energy per shot)on my A-Wing, I can get about 4 shots off with CapOverload3 and WeaponOverload4 before its clink clink on the drained battery.
JanuHull wrote:
quadpers0n wrote:
how do you get a cap big enough to run WO4 on RE'd 10 guns? i've looked around at capacitors and so far i haven't seen any, even RE'd lvl 10s that can withstand a 30 energy per shot gun. if engine overload 4 math holds true for WO4 you'd be doing 300 a shot. what capacitor in existance can have any decent output with that? even if you are using a borstel that's still 150 a shot.
is my math off here? x10 sounds like a bit much but i seem to remember getting about 10 shots off with the best cap i've ever RE'd.
i agree with ducimus, a WO3 fix will substantially alter so much that most arguements are pointless to probably even make until that fix goes in. it's going to change everything in a big big way. maybe not overnight...
Which is exactly why I use CapOverload4 and high level crafted capacitors with 50+ regen. With a crafted Type III capacitor (790 energy, 47 regen)and a single Advanced Blaster (27 energy per shot)on my A-Wing, I can get about 4 shots off with CapOverload3 and WeaponOverload4 before its clink clink on the drained battery.
I imagine a corrected Weapon Overload 3 would allow me to have about6-10shots before draining it, depending on how hard I stood on the fire button. Its definitely not going to bespammable...
ontop of that your weapon will use 3.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 x more reactor power
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
JanuHull wrote:
I bet you miss your 90% composite, don't you?
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
I really hate the fools who say we need damage mitigation in space.
Have you never seen a Star Wars movie, ever?
I suggest you go watch them.
The Xwings and Ywings in the Death Star trench didnt take 50 shots to die - they took one or two.
If you cant handle the combat, then dont fly, or youll die. Thats war, it isnt fair and isnt pretty, but, at least it is like it is in the films!
Even after a couple of days, I still have to reply to this.
Nope, I didnt like 90% composite armour, i used padded some of the time and NONE most of the time. However that is the game called SWG and that game is NOT the game JTL. Although these 2 games are linked they are totally different. One is based on how quickly you can bash your F keys and you hope you can root your enemy first, the other is a frenetic starwars snubfighter combat game which requires YOU the player to have the appropriate skills, not YOUR toon.
I hated composite armour on the ground and i hate space composite armour too!
However, this is STAR WARS and we all want to have star wars fighter combat - the PvP damage gives us fighter combat that lasts only a few shots UNLESS you are evenly matched in which cause it can take ages to get killed or get a kill!
This is STAR WARS space fighter combat as seen in the movies and portrayed in the books. If you want something different, try a different game, but those of us who fly, fly because we want to fly a SW fighter in a SW world with SW characteristcs! This is currently one of the fews bits of SWG, JTL, ROTW, that works perfectly and why should we change it.
If however you are incapable of fighting PvP, you could try practicing over and over again until you have the skills to compete. Just, as RW pilots have to do. In fact, if anyone says PvP damage should be mitigated then they are the ones who want composite and a equipment based sapce game and not a player based, twitch skill space game.
Space, is dark, cold, lonely and extremely deadly! If you dont like it, or cant handle it, stick to the cantinas and listen in rapt awe to the stories of the pilots who pass through, and, treat these brave heroes with the respect the truely deserve! You may learn something from their stories!
"The problem is, and TomoRainier's been right to hammer this point back, isthat you really can't giveplayerPOB ships thatkind of endurance without making PvE utterly and completely trivial to a POB."
I've said this before, gonna say it again though. I agree with this in principle, but...
What Ace pilot (which you need to fly a POB ship, as we know) isn't pretty much invincible in the PvE game? We can solo the Star Destroyer for crying out loud. We can solo a Corellian Corvette and its entire escort consisting of a squadron of fighters and two more POB-type ships.
More over, what group of FOUR Ace pilots cannot completely and utterly annihalate anything in PvE?
So what's wrong with making the largest, least maneuverable, worst at aiming, most expensive to get, requiring multiple people ship a God in PvE?
The hardest space conflict, from my understanding, is this Blackscale Compound battle above Kashyyyk. I've only read one report of this battle, and guess what, it consisted of a group of 4 pilots. Most died multiple times throughout the battle.
Now put those 4 pilots in a POB ship. Lets say it is Godly too. Their firepower has gone from approximately 12 different blasters and approximately 6 different ordnances to 2 different blasters and 3 (or 2) ordnances**. Now add in the fact that their ship is so large and unable to maneuver away from fire that the ships firing at it will have a hit % of approximately 100%.
**(Not to mention the fact that their two blasters will not have much luck hitting targets, due to them not being able to follow the target out of firing range, and by that I mean distance and the arc of fire, ie. they can't fire on the other side of the POB, and that they are at the will of the turning of the ship, and not to mention the fact the ordnance is useless since its impossible to get a lock on any fighter while in a ship that is so bad at maneuvering, and if you do try to attempt a lock then the turrets will have an even harder time hitting their targets).
I think it's safe to assume those same 4 pilots would easily die over, and over, and over again, and/or it would take them hours to takedown all the fighters while in a POB ship, even if it had Godly PvE components.
Hope that makes you think.
Message Edited by Feynan on 07-14-2005 02:04 PM
Message Edited by Feynan on 07-14-2005 02:08 PM
Message Edited by Feynan on 07-14-2005 02:10 PM
I agree about the skill part, and about not requiring Ace to man a turret, but I think for the most part my point still stands. Especially about the Blackscale Battle I posted about. Those same 4 pilots would be massacred in a POB because it has so many disadvantages and no advantages compared to fighters, even with much better boosted equipment.
I completely, completely agree about bringing the pre-ROTW ships up to par with the post-ROTW ones being bad. This was actually said by DP in the Dev Chat a little while back. The balance of ships was great pre-ROTW, as was their relation to PvE. Besides, it'd be a lot easier to modify the 6 ROTW ships then it would to modify all the other ships, which would make the entire system go haywire because the combinations of speed/mass/turning/size are now all screwed up from how they were originally balanced in PvE. Tomo, if possible let DP or some Dev know that (if you already haven't), just because DP specifically said that he would rather raise the older ships rather then nerf the newer ones (he didn't sound dead-set on it, but he said he preferred improving then nerfing, which makes sense, but not in this case).
Also agree, I don't want PvE to be trivialized further then it already is. That being said, I think it's easier for the Devs to boost the POB and add in some tougher battles (more NPC's, give them stronger weapons, more ordnance, new NPC ships that are tougher to hit) then it is to lower every other ship in the game so that the POB stands out now without trivializing the current PvE.
This is sort of an unrelated note, but thought I'd put it here too.
Thinking about it, PvP-wise, giving POB ships shields and armor equivilant to that of NPCPOB ships would seem good. The NPC POB ships seem to be the proper level of difficulty.
Though I'm still a big fan of the PvP damage mitigation based upon mass (basically the heavier a ship, the more damage mitigation it inherently has).
Feynan wrote:
I agree about the skill part, and about not requiring Ace to man a turret, but I think for the most part my point still stands. Especially about the Blackscale Battle I posted about. Those same 4 pilots would be massacred in a POB because it has so many disadvantages and no advantages compared to fighters, even with much better boosted equipment.
I completely, completely agree about bringing the pre-ROTW ships up to par with the post-ROTW ones being bad. This was actually said by DP in the Dev Chat a little while back. The balance of ships was great pre-ROTW, as was their relation to PvE. Besides, it'd be a lot easier to modify the 6 ROTW ships then it would to modify all the other ships, which would make the entire system go haywire because the combinations of speed/mass/turning/size are now all screwed up from how they were originally balanced in PvE. Tomo, if possible let DP or some Dev know that (if you already haven't), just because DP specifically said that he would rather raise the older ships rather then nerf the newer ones (he didn't sound dead-set on it, but he said he preferred improving then nerfing, which makes sense, but not in this case).
Also agree, I don't want PvE to be trivialized further then it already is. That being said, I think it's easier for the Devs to boost the POB and add in some tougher battles (more NPC's, give them stronger weapons, more ordnance, new NPC ships that are tougher to hit) then it is to lower every other ship in the game so that the POB stands out now without trivializing the current PvE.
This is sort of an unrelated note, but thought I'd put it here too.
Thinking about it, PvP-wise, giving POB ships shields and armor equivilant to that of NPCPOB ships would seem good. The NPC POB ships seem to be the proper level of difficulty.
Though I'm still a big fan of the PvP damage mitigation based upon mass (basically the heavier a ship, the more damage mitigation it inherently has).