Pilot Archive

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quadpers0n wrote:

i'd love it if they reduced damage affecting POB ships only though. i wonder if that's possible.

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While I understand and like the reason, I thought we were trying to avoid artificial reductions/mitigations? This would certainly work, but I'd think a mechanically sound increase in the defenses themselves would be better. Let the guns have one value that works consistently.

OR

Why didn't I think of this earlier.... Weapons already HAVE two separate values... Min damage = PvP damage, Max damage = PvE damage. Any thoughts?

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TomoRainer wrote:
For the record, I don't think we should have decay in PVP.

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Honestly i dont think there should be PvP ship/part decay but the problem with removing it is

1.) Screaming shipwrights
2.) Lack of penalty.


while i dont think part/ship decay is conduisive to encouraging pvP, i do think there should be some time of penalty, to discourage dying.

Maybe replacing decay with some soft of Faction point loss? You get FP loss in the ground in Pvp (err last i pvp ed on the ground anyway), it always struck me as odd that you dont in space.

That said, i dont think FP loss penality should be as severe in space, but it should be something of an annoyance. Likewise, FP gains from space PvP seems to be lacking too. Been that way for awhile now, i totally forgot about that. Of course, was this intentional to prevent player farming? *shrug*

Message Edited by Ducimus on 06-21-200511:25 AM

Message Edited by Ducimus on 06-21-2005 11:25 AM

meh, part of the cool thing about damage ranges though is that you don't always do X dmg. personally i think modifying shields (slightly for heavy/light fighters) is probably a good idea. i think viidius came up with that whole "defector rather than shield" thing that also has awesome potential for fighter pvp if implemented.

as far as wanting to avoid modifiers, that officially goes out the window when it comes to POB ships imo. fighters are ok, we can get by. pilots who can't adapt to using a heavy fighter in PVP sadly are going to have to use lighter ships, it's just a tradeoff that is necessary.

but POB ships are a diamond in the rough for this game. they are such an underutilized resource that it's sickening. i still cannot believe how well they pulled the mechanics of POB ships off, and how poorly they botched their implementation in the actual game. imo give them every bonus necessisary to get people up and flying them 24/7. if it imbalances the game slightly in favor of the POB, so be it. us fighter pilots will figure out a way to adapt. and imagine for a moment if it doesn't imbalance the game. wow PVP isgoing to get fun.

see we'd have a game then. right now alot of times it feels more like a concept. a simulator for light fighter and the occasional heavy fighter battle. fixing that would be absolutely huge, so yeah, they can do whatever they want in that regard. mitigate, increase values, all of it. it's just important that the mitigation not apply to the fighters as well, or at least not the same %.

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quadpers0n wrote:

meh, part of the cool thing about damage ranges though is that you don't always do X dmg. personally i think modifying shields (slightly for heavy/light fighters) is probably a good idea. i think viidius came up with that whole "defector rather than shield" thing that also has awesome potential for fighter pvp if implemented.

as far as wanting to avoid modifiers, that officially goes out the window when it comes to POB ships imo. fighters are ok, we can get by. pilots who can't adapt to using a heavy fighter in PVP sadly are going to have to use lighter ships, it's just a tradeoff that is necessary.

but POB ships are a diamond in the rough for this game. they are such an underutilized resource that it's sickening. i still cannot believe how well they pulled the mechanics of POB ships off, and how poorly they botched their implementation in the actual game. imo give them every bonus necessisary to get people up and flying them 24/7. if it imbalances the game slightly in favor of the POB, so be it. us fighter pilots will figure out a way to adapt. and imagine for a moment if it doesn't imbalance the game. wow PVP isgoing to get fun.

see we'd have a game then. right now alot of times it feels more like a concept. a simulator for light fighter and the occasional heavy fighter battle. fixing that would be absolutely huge, so yeah, they can do whatever they want in that regard. mitigate, increase values, all of it. it's just important that the mitigation not apply to the fighters as well, or at least not the same %.

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Heh, well, I may never make a great B-Wing pilot, but let me defend the POB implementation just a moment. In PvE, with a solid crew that knows their stuff, they're amazing to behold. Only the Kessel Corvettes are beyond their abilities that I've seen, and that may just be a matter of coordinating with the fighters better, which we're just getting into. Tier 5 gunboats?My crew and I eat them for lunch. I've been told the ISD has fallen to a YT-1300 on one server. With pilot xp for everyone on board, I'm never short onvolunteers for damage control. Most of the time, unless my gunners and I goof up bigtime (which is happening less and less), they're in there chillin'. I've got a food crafting station on board in case my guild's resident chef, and my favorite damage control ace, gets bored.

I fly mine on routine runs almost exclusively now. I keep three spacebomb II launchers locked and loaded, and I can put 12 Tier 3's in the dead books without a shield breach with no on else on the boat. I've taken a crew out every chance I've gotten and I've even won the Galactic Home Show with it. (I'm JanuHull as well, he's on vacation due to a rather impressive burst of temperin the GCW forum.) I love mine to death, and I'm dreading the day I have to retire the chassis on it. It started out at 3500, and due to some run ins with the Star Ravager,its at 1650 and holding.

Well I'll just reply to the three jabs and leave it at that...

Ducimus - "Its different in that with XvT sure you could dump power back into your shield, but you had to reroute power from the engines or weapons to do it. You lost in speed or weapons, so You had a clear cut trade off. In JTL, the way overloads are, its like playing XvT with E/W/S ALL set to "recharge at maximum rate"."

Wrong. You could have sields totally redirected to engines and still recharge them outside the ELS system. Ever try pressing ; or ' ? They did direct dumps of charge between systems exactly like shunt, with the same consequences (sucks a few sec of gun charge to replenish shields), but with zero delay, and you can do it as fast as you can button tap as long as you have weapon power.

Alyxian - I judge by what you say, and from what you say, you must have had a hard time indeed in the classics... cause if you had spent any length of time at all online with them you would know the reality to be a bit different from your proclamation. Or perhaps even there you were the type to refuse playing anything other than T/F matches so you could score kills...? Known a lot of those...

Quadperson - "Only one ever made it close enough for a turning fight"
"yet you claim to have PVP experience? i'm wondering why that is, since you admittedly havenext tonone."

Heh, not exactly... like I said, none have made it any closer. They die long before they reach the range of turn-fighting. As I said... quickdraw. Or in your book do I have to grant them that courtesy to consider myself "experienced?" One shot... gone. The end. All of them. There really aren't any happy embellishments to it... they reach gun range and die. I don't even use missiles... I like to be that sporting. Take that as you will...

But I've spoken my peace... hopefully the Devswill take a balance pass at space eventually. I recall they once catered to the cause of buffs and comp too... but we see where that era has happily gone.

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TFA_Maverick wrote:

Alyxian - I judge by what you say, and from what you say, you must have had a hard time indeed in the classics... cause if you had spent any length of time at all online with them you would know the reality to be a bit different from your proclamation. Or perhaps even there you were the type to refuse playing anything other than T/F matches so you could score kills...? Known a lot of those...

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Again you judge wrong, I had an easy time in the classics, and a ton of fun with them. But each one of them was a VERY different game, including this one. Yeah, power management, sure, sort of like CtSS, but not really. I can CtSS4 and keep my blasters firing non-stop, I could not do that with power management.

it is a different game, you want the calssics, play them, you want JTL, learn and adapt

Shields are already ridiculously overpowered everywhere except PvP, that shield overload would be a cure worse than the disease. My idea has always been, take CtSS from Freelance, give it to the Rebels, and replace it with a Retrothrust program.

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-21-2005 03:04 PM

Elite Shields on Kettemoor are coming in around 3700 front/back.Type V shields areweighing in at 2267 pointsfront and back. I can swing Type V armor at 2000 or so points of protection. Type IV armor comes in around 1500. Added, Type IV shields on Kettemoor max out around 1925 front/back, not counting any amazing successes.

The best Advanced Blaster my Master Shipwright can make does 2882 pointsmax damage. Two shots, and I'm through both layers of protection. My Experimental Blasters are 3878 points max damage. Two shots and I've blown anything I hit straight to hell.

Right now, our blaster damage is primarily focused on PvE. NPC fighters in Tier 5can withstand a half dozen shots from one of those Experimentals.Tier 5 NPCblasters take about as many shots to get through my shields. Frankly, I think the best solution is to cut player blaster damage by 75% and NPC shields/armor by 75%.Fiveshots to break the heaviest shields is reasonable, maybe 7 to 10 shots to destroy another player or NPC is also reasonable. That gives heavy fighters time to bring their immense power to bear before blowing up, and it gives light fighters the time to take a hit and get the hell out of the way.

Message Edited by Rorenikibi on 06-21-2005 04:08 PM

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TomoRainer wrote:
If there were a way to prevent shield shunt from making them invincible, I wouldn't mind seeing POBs being able to take up to maybe 100 shots before dying. It may sound like a lot, but if that's what it takes to make them useful in PVP, that's what it takes.

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Assumptions:

• Capacitor Recharge Rate 75 (don't know if this is possible on elite yet)


• Capacitor Energy 2000 (again, using a high number for example)


• Droid Command Speed 9 (fairly normal for an RE'd 10)


• Shield Recharge Rate is unmodified


• Weapon Capacitor Overload 4


• Capacitor Shunt to Shields 4

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cap Recharge Rate is directly the amount of capacitor energy points restored per second and Shunt can be used every (Droid Command Speed) in seconds.

• Modified Capacitor Recharge Rate using WCO4 = 75 * 2 =150


• Modified Capacitor Energy using WCO4 = 2000 * 2 = 4000


• Energy Shunter with full Capacitor = 4000 points


• Energy Shunted per shunt, using shuntas fast as possible= 1350 pts every 9 seconds

Effectively, it can be stated that Capacitor Shunt to Shields 4 will add the capacitor recharge rate to the shields recharge rate. While a 170-ish shield recharge is insanely high, its nothing a dedicated fighter can't take care of. Basically, if a fighter escort can buy the POB a minute or two to repair and recharge, the POB will *appear* invincible but CSTS4 it is no where near that.

Sorry, just had to look at it mathimatically.

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-21-2005 03:18 PM

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-21-2005 03:18 PM

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quadpers0n wrote:

response to Rorenikibi

again, the problem with that is why does a good pilot who doesn't have as much time to play have to take 5 shots to bring medicore pilots like myself down, whereas i only take 1-2 shots to do the same to him? now most pilots have a fighting chance to take me down. you put in a reduction across the board like that and other ypr and weapon strength becomes much more valuable than it is now.

right now ypr is invaluable, but once you make average 2.5k dmg blasters take 5 shots to kill me, battles determined on roll turns are going to push heavy fighters with mediocre equipment right out of the mix. you talk about b-wings, aim and some tricks won't save you after a reduction like that, and light fighters, hard to hit as is, will be loaded up with the same equipment and will happily stunt their problems away.

like i said earlier, this is easily tested. a 75% reduction equates to something in the neighborhood of lvl 3 guns. slap 2 of them in your ship, give 2 to your friend and make sure you have identical components. now run eo3 on one ship and eo4 on another to simulate differences in engine. do 10-20 duels and find out who wins. you'll find that it's going to be the guy running eo4 all the time.

no, you were definately on the right path with chassis based modifications, trying to right the disparity of POB ships and heavy fighters can't adequately be accomplished with a broad reduction.

certainly 100 shots on a POB can't be accomplished that way. a minor combination of both methods, perhaps but imo it's uneeded

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-21-2005 03:18 PM

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-21-2005 03:18 PM

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Well, the reduction idea was offered up to try and bring PvE and PvP to some level of parity, not any kind of survival increase for heavy fighters. Hmm..

I don't want to go the route of saying weapon performance should be modified by chassis, because you start robbing shipwrights of their effect on space..

Going back to shield mods based on chassis type, if POBs get a huge boost based on their size, then B-Wings, Oppressors, Firesprays and Krayts need at least a halfstep improvement to keep in the mix. And yes, I know making this change to the Firespray threatens to create a new alpha wolf in the pack, but they're pretty unspectacular for being the AV-21 of JTL.