Pilot Archive

Thread: why do people use the RGI??

JanuHull
Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:04 am
#66







Dragon942 wrote:





JanuHull wrote:





LeaphChausew wrote:





Attacca wrote:

I go for the theory most of them don't read the boards and don't know how bugged the ship is.


And I do consider it cheating to fly the RGI - it's bugged, therefor an unfair advantage. It's up there with loadkilling and shield/weapon exploits.







How about WO3?





Exploit in my book.




WO3 is an exploit in your book but not Epulse3? What book are you reading?







Well, lacking a good art program, I cannot draw you a picture, so i'll explain in simple monosyllabic terms:


WO3 is broke. It makes guns too strong. It not work like meant to.


EP3 not broke. It make big boom, kill bad guy. It work like meant to.



You see now?

Message Edited by JanuHull on 09-13-2005 03:04 PM



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

Dragon942
Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:10 am
#67






kreindhild wrote:

i have no problems with a JSF, or a Z95, or any other ship that doesn't have a bugged hitbox....


but i think missles need to be looked at. imo






Just FYI, the hitbox for the JSF is actually bugged. Using the group box method, you can see that the JSF hitbox does not include the majority of its wings, we just don't notice as much because its not nearly as obvious as the RGI hitbox being bugged.


As for missiles, they half work. There is a pretty good selection of missiles as far as mass, lock-on time, and damage. I like that you have to buy every missile pack and load it on the ground. I like that a properly deployed counter-measure will usually defeat a missile.


The problem with missiles is lag. In a tight dogfight (90% of fights) a missile can hit you before you have a chance to react. The sequence goes something like this when there is a little bit of lag:



  • Player A achieves a lock andfires a missile at Player B.

  • Player A's computer tells the server the missile was fired.

  • Fractions of a second later the server recieves the message and begins tracking the missile.

  • The server sends the message that a missile is tracking them to Player B.

  • Fractions of a second later the server calculates that player B has been hit and sends Player B the message.

  • Player B finally recieves the message that a missile is tracking him. Being a prepared pilot on his toes he immediately fires a chaff. Player B's computer sends the server this message.

  • Player B's computer recieves the message that the missile has hit him. Player B explodes.

  • The server recieves the message that Player B has fired a chaff. It decides no missiles are tracking Player B and drops the message.

So in summary, because of the lag and missile speed the missile can hit the player before the player even knows a missile has been fired.


Possible solutions would be handling the missile/countermeasure interaction on the client side or possibly reducing the speed of all missiles. Its hard to call using missiles an exploit because it does work as intended half the time (either when there is very little lag or when the distance to target is great enough). And its hard to call it unbalanced, as everyone has the same chance to use missiles and be hit by missiles. But it is, unfortunetly bugged and broken, which can make it very frustrating.




Starscreamer Sapphire
Starsider
Dragon942
Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:15 am
#68






JanuHull wrote:




Well, lacking a good art program, I cannot draw you a picture, so i'll explain in simple monosyllabic terms:


WO3 is broke. It makes guns too strong. It not work like meant to.


EP3 not broke. It make big boom, kill bad guy. It work like meant to.



You see now?

Message Edited by JanuHull on 09-13-2005 03:04 PM




Why the immaturity Janu? We've both been on this board long enough to avoid that.


The problem with WO3 is that the Damage is set for the overload and the Energy is set for the Effeciency mode.


The problem with Epulse3 is that the Damage is set for PvE, but is being applied to PvP targets.


Both are cases of unintentional misbalancing during the coding. They sound like similiar problems to me. They both have different consequences (and I think those of Epulse3 are much more severe) but are surely both not working as intended.





Starscreamer Sapphire
Starsider
Ducimus
Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:24 am
#69



Dragon942 wrote:
Just FYI, the hitbox for the JSF is actually bugged. Using the group box method, you can see that the JSF hitbox does not include the majority of its wings, we just don't notice as much because its not nearly as obvious as the RGI hitbox being bugged.





Well i think its quadperson who's said time and again that the RGI and JSF hitbox are about the same size. The reason you dont notice it is because the acutal chassis that the hitbox is overlayed on is larger on the RGI then the JSF, hence you'll see more blue shield flashes on one, then the other - hence its more noticeable. The caveat here against the RGI is that its chassis appears to obscure the hitbox - however this is subject to debate and one i wont make a definative assumption on.

Ive flown both and ive gotten blue shield flashes with no damage mulitple times. The JSF gets it, just not as much as the RGI.



Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
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...has mastered the Pilot profession
JanuHull
Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:54 am
#70






Dragon942 wrote:





JanuHull wrote:




Well, lacking a good art program, I cannot draw you a picture, so i'll explain in simple monosyllabic terms:


WO3 is broke. It makes guns too strong. It not work like meant to.


EP3 not broke. It make big boom, kill bad guy. It work like meant to.



You see now?

Message Edited by JanuHull on 09-13-200503:04 PM





Why the immaturity Janu? We've both been on this board long enough to avoid that.


The problem with WO3 is that the Damage is set for the overload and the Energy is set for the Effeciency mode.


The problem with Epulse3 is that the Damage is set for PvE, but is being applied to PvP targets.


Both are cases of unintentional misbalancing during the coding. They sound like similiar problems to me. They both have different consequences (and I think those of Epulse3 are much more severe) but are surely both not working as intended.








Ehm, you realize that ALL of our weapons are balanced for PvE first?Why do you think it takes two shots tops to kill a player and nigh a dozen to kill an NPC? The PvP system in JTL is a slipshod add on. The only reason this issue isn't more glaring with blasters is that players have learned to cope with them by building their ships around ultrahigh maneuverability engines and intelligent use of throttling. If we can't tank a hit, we'll evade it.


EP3 is easily mitigated by staying the hell out of range and going missiles first. A lot of us PvP masters have a real f*cking nasty attitude about missiles, but the goddamned things were put in the game for a reason, and if we're going to learn to cope with EPulsers, we'd better get our heads out of our asses and adapt. Several ships we fly were built to be missile platforms, this is a not a f*cking accident, its intended design. Dogfighting may be the fashionable method of doing the business we do, but its not the only game in town.Epulsing, missile boating and dogfighting are equally important to securing a win.


Saying that dogfighting is the only "proper" way of playing is like flying without Overloads. You're ignoring a substantial chunk of your capabilities by staring down your nose at it. As much as we harp on the poons that come in here for obviously stupid sh*t, we sometimes tend to get a little full of ourselves too.


Just because us dogfighters think we're gods gift to the profession because we can send some of these kids in their Relic ships packing using JTL basic ships, doesn't mean that someone out there who isn't a stickjockey doesn't have a means of showing us the hard way out of Deep Space, too.


Saying Epulse is overpowered for PvP runs in the same vein as saying every other weapon we throw on our ships is overpowered.The fact is, it works, and by all indications from above, its working as intended, so instead of whining, we need to put our noses to the grindstone and figger out how to compensate, or the dogfighters are going to be dethroned real quick and painfully.



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

Azdraik
Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:47 pm
#71

I like my RGI because of the coloring scheme to tell you the truth. Do I pvp with it... no. Do I help people finish missions and loot grind in space yes. I believe that all the RoTW ships got the same hitbox its just the RGI's model is larger, therefore the hitbox is off center.



Azdra'ik ng'Saeich - Master Teräs Käsi - Master Swordsman
Coleader of Dark Thunder

Travel paths least taken,
in search of that which is not there.
Dispair not in fate,
for it holds no bind on you.

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