Pilot Archive

listen the fault of this bug going to live is due to a lack of regression testing. you know what regression testing is? it's when a dev fixes something, and that fix is given to QA to doublecheck that in the processes of fixing that problem more problems didn't come up, and that the actual original problem is fixed.

my original post (the one you didn't read) said:

"like i said earlier, i don't think it's the devs fault. imagine you are sitting there, 400 things to code, and no time to do any of it. you wouldn't unit test either, and even if you did, there's no way to know if the files you just coded perform the same on the dev servers as they do on live. same goes for QA, i bet they do a fine job, but A) the game is huge and functional test plans for the whole thing are probably nightmarish. and B) i doubt they have time to do any regression testing after something is fixed. the problem isn't QA, it's not the devs, it's not the dev's boss or QA's boss, but their bosses, or thepeople directlyabove them. "

since you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it, let's break it down for you. i was responding to a post saying that the devs obviously don't playtest their code. the first part says "yes, they probably don't unit test their code at all, or if they do, it's not far fetched to think that it may perform differently on development servers as it would on live servers. but then again, unit testing is not a developer responsibilty, or if it is, the origanization has to be such that it allows unit testing, which i doubt the way they work really does. you don't even know if they are allowed to unit test. they might not be! i've worked in places that literally forbid coders from going over their own work. there's usually good reasons for that, and they may not apply in a video game environment, but still, we don't know what they do or don't do, can or can't do.

the second part deals with QA, it says that basically they probably do an ok job, but are prevented from regression testing due to procedures implemented they have no control over.

had SOE employed proper regression testing, using the definition of regression testing i wrote above, by nature this problem would not occur. you disagreed, but then said you agreed, and now are saying you agree, but also place blame on the devs and QA as well despite the fact that QA obviously doesn't or can't regression test, and despite the fact that it's not the devs jobs to regression test.get it now? still disagree? did the yellow text help?

or maybe you think the devs should rise up against their employer and demand to be able to constantly unit test? maybe you think they should put their foot down and say to their boss' boss "listen, we aren't going to code any more buggy patches!" you know what that corporate suit will say?

"i hear MCI is hiring."

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 09-01-2005 06:56 AM

what a suprise you ignored my post and once again and went off on your own tangent proving how blindly ignorant you really are.

Please, just drop the flamewar. I'd comment about what you're arguing about, but I don't want to add ANY fuel to the fire...

no i read it, you said everyone is to blame as if coders and quality assurance testers have a say in how things are run. "the lot of them" you said. but as you've proved, you have no idea how it works, nor do you want to rationally consider how it works. you're fuming mad at the lot of them, like the guy in his air conditioned car, red faced and bellowing out the window at roadside construction workers for making him late.

i'm just trying to say that posting things like "shows how much the devs care" and "they let these bugs slip past, shows how much they care" are idiotic. they probably HATE the fact a bug got to live. it reflects on their coding, something they probably take pretty personally considering they work at what the like doing, instead of working for a insurance company coding automation software or something.

not only is it idiotic, but it's probably a big reason why they don't post here and yeah everyone is guilty of it, even me, but i'm calling myself an idiot for saing things like that in the past as well.

it reflects even worse onazarken, after rationally explaining why it's not their fault he still sticks to his guns, despite having no ammo.

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 09-01-2005 07:07 AM

so it's not the devs fault? so we are saying exactly the same thing? so we go back to my original post, which said just that, that it was the people implementing policies fault and i have to ask again, what exactly are you disagreeing with?

No we are not agreeing. Re-read my point 2. Im saying its everyone invovleds fault. The programmers, the QA the management and the rest in the chain.

I say programmer because the term dev does not mean they are a programmer. they could be involved at some other level other than coding as you should well know having "experience" in this sort of area.

Can't we all just get along?

So has this been fixed?

*puts on a black robe and then a powdered wig for our English friends*

/BANGS GAVEL

Order! Order in the court! Both of you sit down before i find you in contempt!

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quadpers0n wrote:

could this next hotfix break loot drops or something so the subsequent hotfix could fix WO3 as well as loot? or you know what, i'll settle for 2 days of no loot if a dev would even say if it's a bug or not. hell, i'll settle for a week of no loot.

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I would even give upflying for aweek if it meant the RGI got fixed, but as far as I know the devs haven't even confirmed this asa bug much less said anything about fixing it