Pilot Archive
Thread: Warning on publish 23 bugs
TomoRainer wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
hotfix? for space? Surely you jest! Sony will do nothing about it, just like always. Everytime sony does something, some aspect of space gets broken, and it just stays that way.
Jo-don wrote:
We're testing one now.
Hmmm, yummy, somebody pass me some katchup. I'm eating dinner here.
Take that, naysayer!
Really though, great to see this get addressed so quickly. Hmm.. and according to the new TC notes, we're getting /findfriend and chat tabs fixed, too. Sheesh, if getting critically broken for a couple days is all it takes to get a couple other nice fixes, maybe we should volunteer for that duty more often.
You know what, Tomo - I've pretty much all about lost all confidence in the Devs.
Seriously. They foist the CURB on us - and even in the scant month's "PREVIEW" (note I didn't say beta) they gave us in the resultant "up yours - we're doing this whether you like it or not" uproar, it was OBVIOUS we were playing something barely out of Alpha testing...
...and now we're slowly but surely getting back to a state that can only be described as WORSE than the period about three months following the initial release...the only difference being there are Jedi and people have large sums of money and possessions now.
Not to mention my FIRM belief that the Devs aren't actually PLAYTESTING anymore, but rather merely futzing with the code that controls said problem areas and calling ANY changes made "fixes" without actually testing them just to make us shut up in the short run and quit bugging them. It's the only logical explanation for fixes that don't fix anything. Even RUDIMENTARY playtesting would prove the fixes ineffectual, but they're labelled as such anyway.
You think /findfriend will work in space? Nah, they'll probably end up breaking it for the whole game because they'll mess with the CODE and then not actually SEE if it fixes the problem before bringing it Live.
Expect it to get worse now that they've got ANOTHER hard deadline to meet for the Ep3 DVD release, too.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 09-01-2005 04:43 AM
quadpers0n wrote:
like i said earlier, i don't think it's the devs fault. imagine you are sitting there, 400 things to code, and no time to do any of it. you wouldn't unit test either, and even if you did, there's no way to know if the files you just coded perform the same on the dev servers as they do on live. same goes for QA, i bet they do a fine job, but A) the game is huge and functional test plans for the whole thing are probably nightmarish. and B) i doubt they have time to do any regression testing after something is fixed. the problem isn't QA, it's not the devs, it's not the dev's boss or QA's boss, but their bosses, or thepeople directlyabove them.
try reading the thread next time mate. RedDwarf clearly said they new this patch was going live with borked space missions and other stuff because the people on the test centre TOLD THEM. They still pushed it live.
that speaks volumes about how much they care IMO.
and fyi, programmers don't and shouldn't be the sole source of testing of code. it doesn't make any sense. say you work on something, then someone goes and tells you "doublecheck you actually did this."say you have 10,000 other things to do as well, and your need to doublecheck all that. what are you gonna do? look at it and say "yeah whatever, i'm pretty sure that works." or do all your work twice? that's why you have QA, cause half the devs i know are gonna say "yeah that's fixed" then go "whaaa?? impossible!" when you tell them it's not. i knew devs that would get pissed, cry and accuse validation techs of trying to ruin them after being told a fix they did didn't work.
it could very well be outsourced QA doesn't do it's job and signs off on things that aren't fixed. that happens, heck i'd be even more inclined to say it happens if the people are getting paid 2 bucks a day. i know that i've been guilty of that, getting paid 100x that to test.
but that's too easy imo. i think it's more likely they are prevented from doing the job they could or are doing it, but the hard deadlines prevent anyone from doing the job they could.
I am in the real world you idiot. Im a senior tech in a large network support company so im well aware of how deadlines and emergancies work so why dont you get a clue.
If you'd bothered to read his post AT ALL you would have noticed they already pushed the patch back 24 hours because of a crashing problem it caused so its well within "their" capabilities to change schedules when required. This may not be as catastrophic as causing outright server crashes but gating a profession that most people in the game partake in is pretty dire.
Also I suggest you try reading what I say more carefully. No where in my post did i say "the devs" or mention the devs. I simply said they were told it was a bug in the patch and they chose to push it live regardless. you know what happens when you ASSume things.
Azarken wrote:
Also your comment about the test centre, drivel. The test centre is not practically out the door. yes it isnt the ideal test platform but its probably a better one than their QA setup as I expect the QA system is set to test only the systems effected by the changes made in the patch.
Where as the test centre tests every aspect. Hence how they found the borked flight missions and QA didnt.
And if it were so practically out the door why have they pulled patchs in the past and delayed patchs in the past after encountering problems on the test centre?
now I could understand if some minor ones go through to be hot fixed later but for something as major as stopping a large chunk of the pilot profession from advancing you'd expect them to wait for a fix.
Defending them for letting such a big bug go live is a pretty futile and pointless position.
hmm, now who is assuming. A) you're assuming QA regression tested this at all. i made that point in my original post, which you didn't read. B) you're assuming test center, is a superior test platform that what's used by QA, which you don't have any idea if that's true or not. C) you're assuming QA didn't find this bug, report it, but because of time constraints nothing could be done. i don't remember a dev ever saying "oh man we missed that one in QA!" for all you know, they could have known about the bug for a week, already developed the hotfix, but have a system in place that doesn't allow new code in past a cutoff date.
and again, the actual developers of this game don't "let" stuff out. their bossses boss decides what goes and what doesn't. you're bashing the overworked guy getting paid 25k a year to work 60 hours a week on a deadline, when the people above him are the ones responsible for the state of things. worst of all, i think your outright confusing the term "devs" with all SOE personel in an "us" vs "them" kind of manner. you might be in the real word, but you don't know anything about how a software company works. blaming the developers shows, so i really don't have to assume.
Did i say Devs in my post? NO! do i need to repeat that for you? I said they told "them". By them i mean the people who ask about bugs on the TC board. Who then pass the info down the ranks. Are they dev's? no clue but at no point did I say devs or blame the devs directly. Sure they have a hand in it but it isnt entirely their fault. its the entire shoddy systems fault. Devs shoddy programming, QA's limited testing(though that might just be soe's fault for giving them such limited areas to test) and the people in charges fault for ignoring the bug once it was found. Stop being so ignorant and realise i didnt at any point say the word DEV when talking about who it was reported to. Do you need it drawn in crayon?
quadpers0n wrote:
i did read what you said. i said it's not the devs fault. and it isn't. they don't make the call, and even if they do make the call someone else designs the criteria they use to make the call. this profession being gated is not in the "doesn't get pushed to live" column. again, that's not the devs fault, all i said is that it's the fault of the people above the devs. your reponse to that was "but they reported it to the devs beforehand". that's ignorant, sorry, and it has nothing to do with anything. so yeah, you didn't read my post, you just responded to what you thought you read.
sorry to assume, but you clearly have no idea how things work. you're a senior network tech but you have no concept that code changes in one area can affect code in another?
Message Edited by Azarken on 09-01-2005 12:13 PM
Azarken wrote:
quadpers0n wrote:
like i said earlier, i don't think it's the devs fault. .....
....They still pushed it live.
you're right, you disagreed with me saying it wasn't the devs fault, but you didn't say devs. my bad.
so what exactly were you disagreeing with then? my post says it's not the devs fault, zero regression testing is done, and someone else is to blame. then you go on to say "read the thread mate, they reported this on test center and still pushed it to live." so what are you trying to say? that you didn't read my post. ok.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 09-01-2005 06:14 AM
I was disagreeing with what you said because the devs did have a hand in it as did the rest of the patch release system they have at SOE. QA the devs management the guys who report bugs from the tc board. The lot of them. They are all to blame so saying the devs are blameless is just plain stupid.
I was also disagreeing with you because i felt the poster you were responding to wasnt just talking about the programmers but the whole development system for the game and that you hadnt read his post or the others clearly. But no doubt you'll refute that claim i didnt read your post properly probably imply im a child then spout of some more rubbish. Get a clue.