Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: POB Ships (YT, Deci, Nova)
MonsofoLexius wrote:
Question for you all (just incase it leads this way down the road, not that it will, but just so I have an idea)
- If there was a "new" type of equipment added, real heavy stuff, only for POB ships. How would you all feel about having to buy all new expensive components??
have to Say No to this one.
Look im all for the SW prof. But Lets try to get some use out of the PPoints.
This chasis dealer is Buyin all these parts. Whats he doin withem? Perhaps Make High Lvl comps for my VT? And He has to spend So much time Buyin these parts. He cant get his PPoints. So as a Nice Trade for your 6 million PPoints he will give you oh say a Real nice Sheild Gen. Or for 20 million He cab give ya a even better one.
OR.....
This little guy Buys my Ship Parts. Psst hey got any Ppoints ya dont need? Jafo thinks Hmm actually i do what ya got. Well i got these Nice little dohickys here ya put it in your pannel of your ship. Nice little shield up grade here +50% to Shelds all Stats except HP. Jafo say wow How much ya lookin for there little fella. 20 Mil PPoints. Wow Deal.
AsI said Not dissin the SW Prof here but If I didnt have a MSW in my guild. I would nt be able to get what i wanted. Not due to price. But Lack of the MSW havin the resourses to Make it.
Now if we are worried of Well wed all be the same as far as parts. Hmm Maybe Skill of the crew could come into play. New Idea I Know But Lets go outside the Box on this.
cknoos wrote:
Currently to fully crew a VT-49 Decimator (I'm Imperial, but I assume this holds true for all three variants), you need a pilot, co-pilot and 2 gunners at the very minimum. Add to this at least one, but preferably more engineers for in-ship repairs. Nominally, six to seven people. At best, this ship is still only capable of damage output comparable to that of a high-end fighter (Oppressor, B-Wing).
I would like to see a few changes/additions to this, namely:
* Turbo Laser Weaponry. Super sized versions of star fighter weapons really, only mountable on the three multiplayer ships. Why? Simple, at the moment, there is at no time when 6 TIE advanced can't out damage a fully crewed Decimator, the difference in absolutely staggering. This is a small capital ship; it needs to have some serious teeth. These weapons would ideally have a longer range than standard weapons, and of course do more damage per shot. To prevent three people from making suicide runs, require the pilot's seat and operations seat to be manned, in order for the heavier weapons to function properly, this would at least require 4 people, albeit with no engineering available.
* Heavier Reactor and shield generator. Again, even with the best equipment currently available, its armor and shield rating are just slightly above that of a high-end fighter craft. In addition to which it presents a very nice, big juicy target which is largely defenseless because of the fighter-class weaponry it's equipped with.
* Ability to reload tubes/countermeasures from the inside. This is one feature I'd really like to see on these ships, it makes perfect sense to be able to reload these launchers from the inside. This would also give the engineers something more to do, making their jobs more important.
* Ability to repair all components, as well as armor, from the inside. Again, just as with the above point, it makes sense and would give the ship a slight edge over fighters. This would of course also fall on the engineering staff.
* External Repair/Reload Capability. One of the potential uses of these craft would be act as FARPs (Forward Area Rearming Points), where your fighter screen can return for quick touch-ups and reloads of counter-measures. Ideally it would take some time to perform these, say 30 seconds for repairs, and 30 seconds for reloads, to avoid a potential invulnerable flight. During the operation, the fighter(s) would be unable to fire their weapons. This could easily be accomplished by requiring the fighter to /dock, which renders it defenseless throughout the operation.
* Make Operations a -LOT- more useful. Currently all this person does is issue droid commands; while novel it gets boring quickly. Offer more duties for this person, such as the ability to fire the forward facing torpedo tubes, chaffs etc.
* More powerful instruments. On the bridge (at least on the Decimator) one can see the spiffy looking holo-projectors, these are of course just background, but the idea is sound. There could be a third seat on the bridge, called either communications or radar operator. Ideally this position could tag targets for gunners, call out incoming threats to the gunners and operations staff.
* Engineering stations. Whoever is on-duty as ship's engineer needs a clearer view of what components are damaged, and where on the ships plasma leaks are occurring. There should be an engineering station, where one can get a quick overview of the ship's status and where help is currently needed (if any).
In closing, a fully crewed multiplayer ship should have the same offensive/defensive power as the combined power of its crew in individual fighter craft. At the moment, the ships prevail because of the sheer coolness factor, but once that wears off and you need raw stopping power, it becomes obvious that the multiplayer ships are not up to snuff combat-wise. I've had a lot of fun with this ship so far, myself and my guild-mates enjoy it immensely, but when it comes time to do the shooting business, it takes a backseat and we all take our fighter craft. I would really like to see these are viable combat options.
Just my $0,02.
-Stasos / Lowca
Imperial Ace since 11/02
JediYuDanJa wrote:
I know a lot of you will disagree with me, but I still think we should have the option of soloing in the Big 3 as well as have a crew. There should be a pilot controled gun and the ability to link the top and bottom guns forward, like in the X-wing alliance game. Also, the ships should be as fast and manuverable as the Falcon is in the movies. Even with these features, there will be a disadvantage over having a full crew.A solo pilot will not be able to fire behind, above, or below and he will not be able to make repiar without leaving the pilot chair.
I agree with everyone else that there should be better armor and shields for the big 3. I also think a repair driod would be cool too (that would negate one of the above remarks I made, but hey) The fact of the matter is that I'm not happy with any of the Master ships. Maybe I expect to much but that's how I feel.
Solo No. Have Faction pets as gunners Yes. And the Repair droid idea been said and I like it.
Tumbler2002 wrote:
I disagree with the notion of making shields 5x or10x more powerful - maybe double strength at most, but I would prefer a different approach. Having a 20k front/back shield for example would basically negate the need for a larger crew - nothing would ever get damaged. You could just Hyper out or Boost away and regen.
That would give them shields of 5000-10000(AT MOST) and against 1 player ship that is still gone in an instant. Armor doesn't seem to go above 1600-1700 so that will be gone in 1 to 2 shots at most and then it's bye bye ship. Making them 5-10x as powerful may sound like too much but considering these things are HUGE (easy targets), slow (easy targets), and have multiple people trying to work together(reaction time is longer) they need to have armor and shields out the wazoo.
Actually 5x on a 2500 front/back Reward Shield is 12500 front/back - 10x is 25k front/back - you would be invincible in PVE - thats why I think 5-10x shields are an unreasonable request.
I'd suggest maybe multi-layered shields and armor instead. Have a shield, then armor, then components, then a shield and armor again begofre chasis damage is taken. This gives the crew more time to repair in a heavy attack. You could possibly tie the use of these extra layers to mandatory crew minimums. Ie: Secondary shield takes minimum of 3 crew, 2nd later of armor takes 5 crew minimum, maybe even a 2nd engine or set of boosters with 8 crew - otherwise the extra parts just don't function.... They could also become interactive parts, requiring constant attention by a 'Chief Engineer' station.
This opens up a whole new set of problems. You'd end up having to mount multiple reactors to power multiple shields/weapons etc. And then you'd need multiple capcitors to charge those multiple weapons... It's too complicated. Boosting performance of the current parts is all that needs to be done imo and it doesn't come with new problems. As for making them take additional crew... well I think these ships are already tough enough to use properly.
With the use of Cap Overloads and managing the use of your guns as you would in a B-wing (with 4 guns and 1 capacitor) it really does not open up a capacitor problem. On Reactors, there are lootable 25k+ reactors out there - some reported as high as 40k reactor output - this makes these fully equipped super ships rare and forced to be crewed to be used. We should not be developing EVERY POB shipinto an indestructable force here, but making the POBs more powerful with more crew.
Boosting their performance a ton,just because they are in a POB ship, would unfairly balance the game in favor of these ships - solo or crewed. There has to be a balance andany increased power MUST be tied to increased crew. Defenses on the other hand could justifiably be boosted without a crew due to the sheer size of the POB target.
Missile/Countermeasure Realoaders are a must - make em 1million mass if ya have too.
What about just using crates as ammo instead? So they come with 25 reloads automatcally?
Should this be available to all ships or just POBs?
Forgot to add a comment on this:
A better use of Co-Pilot or let Pilot run commands
Pilot should have control of these commands. I can't understand why these controls were taken out of the hands of the pilot in the first place. Ops chair should have another purpose like damage control or something. Better yet, mount a forward facing turret that he can fire. But definitely give all pilot/droid commands back to the pilot.
I disagree in a CREWED ship, but this would be a nice feature in a solo POB ship. Allowing any Pilot to man the Operations chair also makes sense - it should not be tied to faction.
Message Edited by Tumbler2002 on 02-18-2005 10:10 AM
Have you remove all that ya put into it. Redeed it then reequip it. I did it no more plasma Bug.
RogueCloudwalker wrote:
1. Add/Fix the third missile slot on the YT-1300.
2. Add the autopilot feature they talked about earlier (Getting up and moving in MP ships while the ship continues on course)
3. Add a feature to lock the turrets forward and allow the pilot to fire from the cockpit.
4. Allow us to hold more items in the ship (Even if we have to give up lots to add 150 items per lot etc.)
5. Solve issues with the plasma conduits (Not repairing, instant deaths etc.)
Actually 5x on a 2500 front/back Reward Shield is 12500 front/back - 10x is 25k front/back - you would be invincible in PVE - thats why I think 5-10x shields are an unreasonable request.
It would make them almost impervious to light NPC fighter craft, but they'd get their ship back in pieces from an NPC gunboat or worse a corvette. This wouldn't be overpowered considering they are a master level ship AND require multiple players to operate. They are designed to attack gunboats and corvette's they should be on par with them not fighters.
In my experience using the Decimator and YT1300 I have found it ridiculously hard to hit targets from the turrets. Simple manuevers on the attackers part will make you miss and if your pilot is manuevering you're likely not to hit anything. On the other hand the attacking players can do high speed straffing runs and be extremely accurate.
Here are the numbers:
4 Players attack a POB ship with 4 players inside. (Shouldn't this be an even match? 4 players vs 4 Players)
Those 4 attackers each fly a ship that has 2 guns and dish out about 2000-3000 shield/armor damage per volley. (This is pretty conservative)
That is 8000-12000 dmg for all 4 ships PER SHOT. Each ship is likely to get off AT LEAST 3 shots that hit.
24000-36000 damage taken in one strafing run...
Does 10x shield/armor boost still seem excessive? Cause it just got blown away in one pass...
Lets assume the ops officer dumped the capacitor into the shield just at the right moment and now the rear shields are in sorry shape and the gunners are blasting away at their targets, and they get one!
Now you have 3 attackers from different directions attacking and only 2 guns defending. That third ship is going to rip a hole through them. End of POB ship.
What about just using crates as ammo instead? So they come with 25 reloads automatcally?
Should this be available to all ships or just POBs?
This would be only for POB's.
Pilot should have control of these commands. I can't understand why these controls were taken out of the hands of the pilot in the first place. Ops chair should have another purpose like damage control or something. Better yet, mount a forward facing turret that he can fire. But definitely give all pilot/droid commands back to the pilot.
I disagree in a CREWED ship, but this would be a nice feature in a solo POB ship. Allowing any Pilot to man the Operations chair also makes sense - it should not be tied to faction.
It makes no sense to take such a vital function of the ship out of the hands of the pilot. Single player pilots have a HUGE advantage if this stays this way. Pilot needs these controls back. We don't need a station devoted to droid commands only. They require virtually no effort to control. Free up the ops officer to be the misc repair guy/extra gunner or something along those lines.
And would someone tell me what POB or FOB stands for? I always called em MP ships and I have no idea what POB and FOB mean. But now I'm using these terms too!
Message Edited by Tumbler2002 on 02-18-2005 09:40 PM
* More powerful instruments. On the bridge (at least on the Decimator) one can see the spiffy looking holo-projectors, these are of course just background, but the idea is sound. There could be a third seat on the bridge, called either communications or radar operator. Ideally this position could tag targets for gunners, call out incoming threats to the gunners and operations staff."
I'm all for this. I'd like to have a group of 20 people split up into a fleet of, say, one MP ship with a crew of 10 and the rest be independent fighters. The ops chair would not only tag targets for the MP turrets, but also have a tactical view of the battle field, being able to filter out or highliight certain targets for the other ships in the group (within sensor range.) It's difficult, as a fighter pilot, to have to prioritize targets while keeping track of where the cap ships are, and I can find myself waltzing right into heavy fire without realizing it. Giving the ops chair the job of coordinating battle tactics can open up whole new doors.
In short, give the pilot the droid commands and give the ops seat a tactical view and tactical command of the battlefield. This way, we could have far bigger PvP matches, with the MP ships relying on smaller fighters for support and the fighters relying on the MP ships for the tactical advantage.
All of the other stuff sounds great, too.
I like the idea of Faction Pets in space....
BUT..... (Please hear me out before dismissing the idea)
I feel that which Faction pet/Crew Member you have available should be controlled by Rank and Faction.
this should be only available to "Master Pilots" AND dependent upon Rank in the Faction.
The different Faction Crew could be made available at different Rank levels
if my Rank list is incorrect in any way please understand that I used what I found in some post on RANKINGS, and the idea is that the HIGHEST Ranks only would have these Crew Members.
RANK Space Faction Pet/Crew
Private: 200
Lance Corporal: 400
Corporal: 800
Sergeant: 1200
Staff Sergeant: 1600
Staff Corporal: 2000
Warrant Officer II: 2500
Master Sergeant: 3000
Warrant Officer I: 3500
Second Lieutenant: 4000
Lieutenant: 5000
Captain: 5000---------------------------Repair Droid (Needs Repair Kits to fix things)
Major: 5500------------------------------Operations Officer (Co-Pilot)
Lieutenant Colonel: 5500-------------Gunner #1
Colonel: 6000----------------------------Gunner #2
Let me make a couple of comments/observations;
1. The Repair Droid would be able to handle MINOR Repairs (to keep you running until a Crew Member can resolve the Problem).
2. The Operations Officer/Co-Pilot would allow the Pilot to have his Pilot Commands and Droid Commands relayed, thus allowing the Pilot to issue the commands from the Pilot's Chair.
3. All either gunner actually does is hold the guns locked into the forward firing position and allow your Pilot's Trigger(s) to control the Firing (like on a Single Player Ship-not like a turret).
4. The Faction Crew Member can be killed when the ship is destroyed, thus needing to acquire a new Crew Member from the Faction Recruiter.
Please note that NONE of the Faction Crew Positions/Abilities are overpowered.
I would prefer to run with a full crew of Live Friends.... But there are times when my friends are unavailable. This would allow the ships to be ran by a skeleton crew, A live Crew would have many more options and abilities and thus would be the prefered way to fly.
I also want to state that while I like these Ideas, they should be addressed AFTER the other KNOWN BUG's related to Multiplayer Ships have been resolved.
If any of these Ideas would unballance the game then I would say that they should not be implemented, I just don't think that the ideas I have expressed would be unballancing in any way.
Thank you for your indulgence, and your patience.
Dym Mok..
Great ideas imho. The one issue I see is how to include Privateers in this. Find a way to get all 3 space pilot professions involved and we might have a better chance to even get it considered when the time comes.....
BlkGryphon wrote:
I like the idea of Faction Pets in space....