Pilot Archive
Thread: How to Fix the Jedi Fighter.
Alyxian wrote:
Ahh, but the jdi ship is tiny...really tiny compared to the grevous
That's a pvp issue, ship profile is not THAT important in PvE imho, as I said I do not consider the needs of the smallest minority this game knows important enough to piss off many more players
.However my posting also contains a solution for this issue, boosting the pre-rotw ships to rotw-style stats, the a-wing is tiny enough I guess?
Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-11-2005 12:32 PM
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
Who cares about PvE?
About 99% of the pilots that I know on my server. And yes, it is easy, but still its more fun with a light fighter actually flyable like a light fighter without removing each and every "goodie" from it (and players not playing ever since the JTL launch will have to do this, they just lack the loot we were able to collect when loot was still plenty). And yes, I also agree that we need a lot more challenging PvE content for JTL, the complete lack of this is one of the reasons why JTL was hardly used.
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
in DS you have to deal with pvp anyway.
Judging about the reality on the majority of servers based on your completly untypical starsider experience is a bad idea, reality on most servers is, deepspace is mostly unused. I can spend hours upon hours there without ever running into another player, I had a single PvP encounter in Deepspace ever since JTL was released, that should point you to the reality on most servers.
But again, the reasonable solution for making the pre-rotw ships viable for PvP again was formulated by me, boost them, don't nerf the stuff those now entering JTL (quite some people in my guild didn't care for JTL *at all* and now do) like to fly and drive them away again with this approach...
Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-11-2005 12:52 PM
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
It is not too hard to build a good ship without prenerf parts.
It's not only the few actual "pre-nerf" parts that makes it hard for pilots not playing JTL for 5 month (like you do) or longer, it's the very reduced amount of lootdrops in general that makes it a very annoying task now to collect reasonably good loot to outfit a useful ship with it without leaving half the slots open or very underequipped :/.
Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-11-2005 01:14 PM
darmokVtS wrote:
With a ship at exact same stats avail to EVERY faction (the grievous fighter) it's not imbalancing across the pilot professions.
What I see here is mostly people afraid of losing their edge they have over newer players who due to the massive lootnerfs have no real chance to collect the items needed to get ships compared to our "old pilot"-ships.
[some text cut]
The way to go is to give the pre-rotw fighters (the old heavy ships are still just fine as they have their advantages in their "roles" still with more weapon and/or missile slots) a boost so they are again a viable choice, not nerfing the rotw ships down to the pre-rotw ship values.
I told the original poster this on another issue, but I'll tell you too: Don't assume things. Pay attention to what people are saying, and don't make statements like "What I see here is people afraid of losing their edge".
That's not really what we are saying at all. With a ship at the exact same stats avaliable to every faction, it's balanced between the professions, yes. But that's not the point. The point is that all these ships makes all the "old" ships obsolete. After all, what's the point of all these other ships? The result is a lack of balance, but not between the factions/professions. The result is a lack of balance within the professions, since there is One Ship To Rule Them All. Effectively, we have a situation with "Composite in Space". And that's EXACTLY what the JTL beta testers got fixed during JTL beta. (Originally, all ships handled exactly the same, so all rebels would end up flying the B-wing, for instance).
Sure, we could give the pre-RotW ships a boost, but nerfing the new ships would be a much easier and sane choice. After all, we do not have another beta test to fix the ship-balance, even though the developers treat the DD-release of RotW as a beta test, but whatever... And I just have to add: If you boost up the old fighters and keep the heavy ships the same, you've just made matters worse. Heavy ships are barely viable as it is right now, since there is nothing for their role to do in SWG.
Vicotnik wrote:
And I just have to add: If you boost up the old fighters and keep the heavy ships the same, you've just made matters worse. Heavy ships are barely viable as it is right now, since there is nothing for their role to do in SWG.
My freelancer's bombers (rhykwhatever and krayt gunship) and any imperials TIE Oppressor (I redeeded it as I saw no point in having two chars with ships filling the same role :-P) still have a significant role (and won't lose them if for example the a-wing gets beefed up to the grievous fighter / jedi starfighter level), supreme damagedealer to bigger ships, they can sport heavier weaponry (and in case of the freelancer ships and the B-Wing more blasters in general) and/or heavier launchers (and in some cases even multiple launchers).
They are bomber-type ships, they are with all the current ships around still the best ships for this task simply because of the slots for weaponry/launchers and the bug mass advantage even over a 90k mass fighter they have, we only lack the encounters where this role is actually helpful (and back again to my main issue that I have with JTL ever since it got released, more high end content, yesterday please). And yes, I know the Oppressor lacks a bit in the mass department compared to the other bombers, but this is a design mistake in the oppressor that needs to be corrected, not a reason to not allow agile fighters at less then half the mass of most bomber-type ships. A bomber-type ship should be able to be outfitted with the heaviest *craftable* non-pobship specific item on every slot, loot is too sparse now to make fully outfitting a ship with items matching its role dependable on decent lootdrops. I know this is also not the case atm, this mistake needs to be corrected too.
Heavier light fighters do not make the bomber-type ships useless, lack of content for bomber-type ships makes them useless. But trying to balance out ships so they are useful OUTSIDE of their role because their actual role is not needed as of current state of the game is simply again not reasonable, adding the content where their role is needed is reasonable (and in the meantime until then my freelancer heavy ships are my most viable solution for spacemining :-P).
The addtion of the completly reasonably designed new ships does only point out all the inherent flaws of the initial JTL design more obviously than ever, basically its a pointer to "everything that is wrong with JTL", instead of nerfing those ships so they fit into the current unreasonable situation in JTL it's definitly more reasonable to push for a correction (naturally this doesnt happen fast, but still there's no point to not try it) of "all things wrong with JTL".
And yes, if you check my posthistory (and if you could, my input during JTL beta) you'll notice that I already pointed out all the flaws that now raise their ugly head back then, however I left the pilot forum not too long ago after launch, the stagnation around JTL gave me no reason to discuss things here, and as I am not part of the starsider pvp community I had even less reason to use this forum ..
Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-11-2005 02:34 PM
FataIity wrote: Why I like the Jedi fighter so much is it can be effective at pvp and pve at the same time. When my TIE Interceptor is maxxed out for pvp I wouldn't last long vs Tier 5's in Deepspace.
FataIity wrote: I've only used a TIE Advanced for pvp twice, and that was just flying from system to system overt. Any Imperial Pilot will tell you the Interceptor is their main pvp ship, I know some that use the Oppressor because of the missles.
I was so free to color some spots where you guys contradict yourself and/or are plain wrong.
darmokVtS wrote:
Alyxian wrote: I am all for getting that "edge", but this throws the balance way off.
With a ship at exact same stats avail to EVERY faction (the grievous fighter) it's not imbalancing across the pilot professions. What I see here is mostly people afraid of losing their edge they have over newer players who due to the massive lootnerfs have no real chance to collect the items needed to get ships compared to our "old pilot"-ships. Basically, as long as not every single item crafted is at least equal in all aspects to looted/re'ed stuff piloting is and will remain very imbalanced anyway, those who aced early had a much easier time to collect very decent loot compared to people who started after the great loot nerfs. I suggest everyone of the old ppl to roll a character on a new server and see yourself what you can do there with the small amounts of mostly junky loot you collect, a new pilot spending the same time on outfitting his ship that we did *will* end up with a quite inferior ship compared to ours due to the nerfed loot drops. He just cannot make his stuff light enough to fit all we tend to use on the light ships, thus putting heavier but still very nimble crafts in the game is the logical solution if the other one (un-nerf loot) is not the way to go (I can understand the reasons for this). New players also do not own the bugged lowmass/good speed droid interfaces we all have in our ships and do not have access to the pre-fixed low mass launchers etc pp... There's btw no real point in nerfing the ships many pilots now enjoy flying just because the small handful of space pvp'ers each server has (with starsider as exception) dislike it. Annoy many pve-pilots to cater the needs of one of the smallest minorities existing in the game? Not reasonable for the devs IMHO
Message Edited by Kitten_Starsider on 05-11-2005 08:31 AM
Kitten_Starsider wrote:
Where were you before ROTW?
See the last paragraph of the posting above yours. The overall situation about JTL looked like SOE more or less abandoned this part of the game after releasing JTL, so I saw no point in discussing things around JTL.
Kitten_Starsider wrote:
miraculous loot nerf
You honestly want to tell me the AMOUNT of dropped loot (and with more loot in general without "adjusting" the percentages between the good and bad stuff naturally also more decent loot dropped) did never change in your opinion? Other regulars of this forum agree with me on this part (Try looking up some postings of Jotun aka KaylBreinhar for example).
Kitten_Starsider wrote:
but now that you have your in PvP overpowered
Haven't tried the ship in PvP yet, and with my "track record" about PvP encounters in Deepspace it might take several month again before this happens :-P.
Btw a "challenge": If anyone can list a working setup that does not leave out any slot of a TIE advanced based on *crafted* items at equipmentlevel 6/7 (midlevel stuff is basically what I would expect to fit in a fighter) without resorting to lower level equipment in any slot OR non-crafted items except an un-re'ed reward engine I will agree that the mass on the pre-rotw ships is just fine
. As this is the "target" I base judgement about "mass of this ship is ok" on, loot surely should give those with it an edge, but not be needed to fill up a ship with items at the appropriate equipment level.Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-11-2005 02:56 PM