Pilot Archive
Thread: Question for people hyped about Capital Ships
JanuHull wrote:
Tomo's right in that making PvE trivial for heavy fighters and POBsby upping defenses is wrong. But the existingissue of strong defense, high maneuverability fighters is a game break that is equally wrong.
He's also right, that balancing PvP is going to be meaningless until there's some kind of fix put in place for WO3. RIght now, the rates of fire to damage output on fighters using it is BADLY skewed.Maybe once the WO3 fix is put in, and that level of overload becomes impractical on most light fighters, we'll see some inherent adjustment, until then, its a free for all for the ROTW ships.
Ok, I'll go back and hide in my little fighter. I obviously don't have a clue about POB's 
I would also like to add, that the NPC versions aren't very tough either. Maybe they are exactly were they should be, in the grand schem of things, who knows, just a thought, I'll go hide in my little fighter now.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
Message Edited by alyris on 07-13-2005 06:55 PM
JanuHull wrote:
Do any of you fly your POB ships? Have any of you explored some of their strengths/weaknesses?
I see threads here going in two very distinct directions. People hyped on their ultralight Clone Relic garbage who are turning and asking to fly a Star Destroyer/Nebulon/Corvette. /boggle
What priyatell to you people expect to do in these monsters? I hear all kinds of insults hurled at POBs because of their lacking maneuverability, and I've gotta ask, do you REALLY think ships ten times larger are going to juke and turn like an Actis on crack? If these ships crack 500 speed, I'll be amazed, we've never seen them top 200 speed in space, so what makes you think the ships you get are going to be so much more stunningly impressive?
Especially to you jokonies who want your own Corellian Corvette. You won't even have your own Aimbot (tm) turrets, probably, and you see people publishing guides on soloing them, and you think you're private uberyacht is going to be somehow immune?
Really, before anyone gets hyped about having these moving mountains of virtual steel, lets take a LONG LONG look at their little cousins. If the Devs can't make them worthwhile and functional for players, what the heck makes you think the big ships will be anything other than the ultimate free lunch in space PvP?
We're talking about steps down a yellow brick road when we haven't even arrived from Kansas yet...
Wise words.
However..anyone notice the ridiculous velocity of the ISD's in a New Hope? 
and then how they slowed down somewhat in ROTJ?
Also I did post a few things relevant to ok..we have a single Stardestroyer which as it stands...lags out an entire star system atm so if we get Capital ships with players on them..well...I just wonder. However...I'd love nothing more them to be everything everyone wants so...
Since my last capital ship related thread appears to have been deleted [I admit my views were rather strong], well....I'm just going to sit tight and wait and see. No speculation = good speculation in my oppinion. The best we can do, is make use of our current POB ships...but rather than find out the weaknesses because to be honest..we know the weaknesses...Instead, we can find their strengths etc and work on making them stronger. A POB ship can be good..with a dedicated crew, trust me. I've been blown up by a couple before.
As for aimbots...I think they'd be good but on the flip side..an aim bot enables afk space xp grinding, possible griefing from people on recieving end of your aimbot [I mean...if you're overt etc..an aim bot can't be sent a tell asking nicely for it to let you continue faction farming ] I'm not sure..grey area as with many things. As I said..I'm personally just going to hang tight. I resigned myself to the fact that primarily, my speciality is starfighters and more specifically, my 'speciality' is the X-wing and A-wing so as far a I'm concerned....whatever Capital ships have role wise in the future...my main concerns will be defending them and blowing them up from a Fighter pilot aspect..I think..lets see 
.
-Leaph
Message Edited by LeaphChausew on 07-13-2005 07:13 PM
I won't be satisfied until I get a Death Star.
Then, I could care less how often it gets obliterated...so long as I can blow up Dathomir a couple timesper day.
Warryyr wrote:so long as I can blow up Dathomir a couple times per day.
Give this man a FLEET of Death Stars! NOW!
TomoRainer wrote:
You know what, the RotW ships aren't really the problem, they just expose and exaggerate problems that've been with JTL since the start--specifically, that there aren't really different roles out there. Except for dumping missiles at Eta-2s in PVP, there really isn't any point to bombers, for instance. And when it comes to firepower and cap ships, what's the point? Ironically, it's the interceptors that own cap ships, while bombers and heavy fighters are all significantly less effective than an Eta-2.. or an A-Wing, or Interceptor, which have always been enormously better for killing cap ships and PVP than B-Wings or TIE Bombers. The Eta-2 might be even better at these things, but it's not like anyone was ever flying bombers in those situations (or really, any) even before the RotW ships came along.
To get back to the original topic, POBs should be fortresses--they can't avoid damage, so they need to be able to soak it--but not to the degree they'd become if you balanced their components solely with PVP in mind. Even if challenging post-master PVE is sparse right now, it would be short-sighted and irresponsible to use that as an excuse to simply grant them 100,000 HP shields rather than to come up with a combination of factors, such as Doghairedinfant's suggestion, that takes both PVE and PVP into account.
), why not at least give them enough armor to be useful in PvE? Maybe PvP isn't the place for POB ships (at least the "transports" we have today), maybe enough armor in PvP is out of the question, I can see that. But I promise you, you make them work in PvE, and people will use them in PvP, just because its cool.
alyris wrote:
JanuHull wrote:
Tomo's right in that making PvE trivial for heavy fighters and POBsby upping defenses is wrong. But the existingissue of strong defense, high maneuverability fighters is a game break that is equally wrong.
He's also right, that balancing PvP is going to be meaningless until there's some kind of fix put in place for WO3. RIght now, the rates of fire to damage output on fighters using it is BADLY skewed.Maybe once the WO3 fix is put in, and that level of overload becomes impractical on most light fighters, we'll see some inherent adjustment, until then, its a free for all for the ROTW ships.
Ok, I'll go back and hide in my little fighter. I obviously don't have a clue about POB's
I would also like to add, that the NPC versions aren't very tough either. Maybe they are exactly were they should be, in the grand schem of things, who knows, just a thought, I'll go hide in my little fighter now.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
Message Edited by alyris on 07-13-2005 06:55 PM
I'm not suggesting that anyone head for a hole... I'm trying to post this as a means of making people who may not be familiar with POB issuesaware of what they might face in the future while they sit in their JSF and dream of Star Destroyers.
Rhu wrote:
Han Solo's light freighter had just about every part of its body, internals, and externals refined and replaced. He put in systems that were at the cutting edge of technology and/or unique bits cobbled together in ways that no sane person would begin to consider.
A vessel geared to transcend every expected limitation shouldn't be considered a standard of comparison for vessels which look similar.
Then let us upgrade our ships in that way. Let us make them fighters or Cargo Ships, dont hold us back by giving us the same mediocre ship. (speaking of course about the fact that you can only go so far with component upgrade...at some point you have the best and you can find no better)
Rather than hurting anything, the questions and objections raised in this thread have been contributing to what I've seen as a really productive discussion.
Rhu wrote:
Han Solo's light freighter had just about every part of its body, internals, and externals refined and replaced. He put in systems that were at the cutting edge of technology and/or unique bits cobbled together in ways that no sane person would begin to consider.
A vessel geared to transcend every expected limitation shouldn't be considered a standard of comparison for vessels which look similar.
I'm very curious how a player run vette will work for example. If they are like npc vettes currently in game, then it will require component destruction (Shield, Secondary Shield, Engine, Reactor, Bridge). If thats how they do it for player run vettes, then against the current AI I would think these things would be almost unstoppable in PvE especially with a couple player run fighters as escorts. A couple player run vettes like this could completely dominate PvE in Deep Space for example. Which wouldnt be bad considering the number of players need to run one, but I'm not sure the AI currently could even kill one.
On a side note, I still consider the POB ships currently as light transports.
Fuss
Qlint wrote:
My vessel is geared to transcend every expected limitation, that is why I feel the millenium falcon is an ideal standard for comparison, and my Nova falls way short.
Message Edited by Rhu on 07-14-2005 11:52 PM
One thing that I've done in the past with my POB that has been very very fun....
I'm on my servers "Pilot Helpers" list. You can imagine that leads to plenty of requests for help. Well, that lead me to start using my POB ship more for these types of occassions. It's really quite fun and very useful in learning how to run a POB effectively.
Wether they are tier 3 or 4 missions a pob is a fun option. Of course, having fighter escort makes it even better.
I'm of course concerned because like many have said here POB ships = death in PvP more often than not. How do we fix it? Well... I like Tomo's ideas so far. It's obvious something must be done to make them viable. This fact alone has lead me to change the way I use my Deci. It just sits in my datapad being used for additional storage space.
PvE POB ships can be a lot of fun when you play towards their strengths, unfortunately for now in PvP you're better off with 4 fighters than 1 POB with a crew of 8.