Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus: PVP Decay
TomoRainer
Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:47 am
#53
Right, but using overload commands on components that are "fully" decayed to 10/10 becomes exceedingly tricky. For me in PVP, if I couldn't run EO4 on an engine because its armor/HP are too low, that engine is no longer of any use. If I have a Mk IV crafted shield with 10/10 armor/HP, however, that shield's still going to perform its task without any problems because I don't have to worry about overload commands hurting its HP and knocking down its efficiency. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.
Ducimus
Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:52 am
#54
Heh, well i know my view isnt exactly the most unbiased one but ahh....
Yes, im a shipwright. (no i dont have a shop, lol)
But ill tell you what i typically make for myself.
Countermeasure packs
Missles (IR2 primarly )
Armor plating (MK I and MK II)
Paint & texture
MK II booster w/10 second burn time
MK I reactor -rarely
MK III reactor - again, rarely
Droid controller - doesnt really count though, once i make one out of HQ material, i dont need to make anymore.
Everything else in my ship is Re engineered.
Yes, im a shipwright. (no i dont have a shop, lol)
But ill tell you what i typically make for myself.
Countermeasure packs
Missles (IR2 primarly )
Armor plating (MK I and MK II)
Paint & texture
MK II booster w/10 second burn time
MK I reactor -rarely
MK III reactor - again, rarely
Droid controller - doesnt really count though, once i make one out of HQ material, i dont need to make anymore.
Everything else in my ship is Re engineered.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:38 am
#55
Combat_Medic_to_be wrote:
Kitten_Starsider wrote:
A third option could be that repairing at space stations causes decay but if you land and use the ship component repair kits (only the specialised ones) there would be no decay. This encourages people to restock their missiles as well so those that died will gain a slight advantage over time since they can refill their missiles and countermeasure packs regularly.
Definately my favourite proposal, would probably be easiest to implement to, simply stopping specialised repair kits from giving decay. This seems like the best solution from both a SW and pilot point of view.
QFE
Definately think kitten's idea is the best way to go about it, so long as they are significantly expensive so that crafted components that are likely to be changed or upgraded are not worth using them on due to cost. Would keep the SW and pilot sides of me both very happy.
MasterSad
Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:58 am
#56
1% of decay or no decay with insurance (allow to buy insureance form the orbit).
Or allow to give ships for capital maintenance to space stations which would cost money/time.
Or allow shipwrights completely repair ships (make repair as expensive as building another ship wit all the parts).
Or allow to give ships for capital maintenance to space stations which would cost money/time.
Or allow shipwrights completely repair ships (make repair as expensive as building another ship wit all the parts).
CommTampers
Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:21 pm
#57
I am both SW and Alliance Ace. In my opinion, it's not as much the decay, but the current inability of shipwrights to replace hard earned and nerfed loot. If I could craft components matching the calibur of any given loot, I would hold nothing against any kind of decay. Since that's not what the devs have in mind, I have recently taken up the DS repair. Since most of my parts are irreplacable short of depleting my entire bank account, I have joined the anti-decay crowd.
ThGilsRooc
Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:52 pm
#58
I don't think removing decay from general pvp-deathwould impact SW that much. I do know I'd be permanently overt in space if they did. Getting to deep space could be a haul sometimes, and I'd love the opportunity to just pvp wherever I can. I feel it wouldn't impact the SW community too much simply because I die more often in PvE. Not because I suck, but sometimes I'll do stupid suicide runs against a fleet of gunboats or something. The risk is exciting.
Some people I know would love decay to stay with PvP because it adds an element of riskassociated with a loss. But, you know... Getting FP/Prestige for a win would be just enough for me. Before anything, I'd at least like to see who I killed so I can thank him for the fight afterwards.
Kitten_Starsider
Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:30 pm
#59
Considering that my Armor is now RE'ed too (some of the lower quest rewards have at least one awesome stat) i only have a crafted booster and a crafted reactor left. Sometimes i use an image rec launcher too.
I think all components should be affected the same by decay whether there will be decay in PvP or not. Exceptions would make no sense from a RP point of view and the wishes for what items people want to decay differ greatly. Some have irreplaceable chassis made with expensive ressources, some nice prenerf equipment, other gathered loot for ages to find their perfect RE'ed component. Who wants what component decay or not is thus highly subjective.
Also with the quality of crafted components (which should be raised to make them competative to RE'ed stuff) no one will think about replacing these items with crafted ones. Now if we decide to make RE'ed components decay no longer... wouldn't that be another argument to usethem over crafted ones too?
It is way easier to find competative looted reactors than finding competative crafted capacitors for example.
As it stands right now most people in PvP use almost only RE'ed components. Most people with rare components go to deep space after they were killed to avoid decay. Few try to establish PvP code of conducts that forbid for example targetting the engine. All of this is fine... and of course intentionally causing decay to someone is griefing.
However, I don't think enforcing decay for all PvP or totally removing decay from PvP will make a big impact on shipwright economy here. It makes it more comfortable for the player as they needn't fly to DS for repairs... it removes a possible way of griefing (if done right and not like the tripple incap 
)... it removes the hassle with trying to convience other players from your code of conduct (not that that was a problem on Starsider 
)... it encourages more people to PvP as they don't risk their rare components.
)... it removes the hassle with trying to convience other players from your code of conduct (not that that was a problem on Starsider )... it encourages more people to PvP as they don't risk their rare components.Ultimately it boils down to this:
1) Remove PvP decay
2) Integrate shipwrights in the process of avoiding decay as an additional source of economy (ship insurance or crafted overhaul kits)
3) Improve crafted components so they are competative to looted components (they should be at least as good as average lootdrops)
All three changes alone will improve or at least keep the business of the shipwright on the same level. No matter what, no pvp decay means more people outfitting ships for PvP which means more people requiring good chassis, missiles and reactors... and with decent crafted components even new people will be able to get a good ship quickly.
Kitten
Tumbler2002
Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:37 pm
#60
Ducimus wrote:
KaylBreinhar wrote:
Most PvP takes place in Deep Space?
I'm 46:5, and most of mine have been in Kessel, POST-change. Only about 4-5 have been DS.
85-90% of my PvP kills have been outside of deep space. Primarly Kessel and Dantooine if i remember correctly.
I have to say I'm shocked that people would pvp outside Deep space at all.
And I wish I had some way of knowing this in game so I could join in. (Suggestion to SOE, Make it easier for pvp'rs to find each other)
So when u pvp do you use stock look from shipwrights or do you come out with your most impressive items everytime?
I'm really pretty dumbfounded because the only incentive I see to PvP right now is that I can do so and walk away with everything I started with win or lose. I definitely would not be using the same gear I am in deep space in kessel.
But in response to the topic overall, I'd prefer decay only occured on ship destruction. If someone limps away from battle and can get to the space station he should be able to do a full repair with no decay. Death should come with some punishment and decay seems to fit that slot nicely. (and if this were implemented I'd like to see very large chunks or armor/hitpoints taken off of components when overload programs are turned on so that it would make players have that many less hp in PvP combat. Repairing would still have no decay but if someone with a lvl 9 engine has 800 armor and kicks on a engine overload 4 program I think that armor shoudl come down to 400. Would make it more dangerous to fight with this engine overloaded 4x because it can only take 50% damage before u are dead in the water.)
Tumbler2002
Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:59 pm
#61
Kitten_Starsider wrote:As it stands right now most people in PvP use almost only RE'ed components. Most people with rare components go to deep space after they were killed to avoid decay. Few try to establish PvP code of conducts that forbid for example targetting the engine. All of this is fine... and of course intentionally causing decay to someone is griefing.However, I don't think enforcing decay for all PvP or totally removing decay from PvP will make a big impact on shipwright economy here. It makes it more comfortable for the player as they needn't fly to DS for repairs... it removes a possible way of griefing (if done right and not like the tripple incap
Wait I'm confused. U said Most ppl go to deep space after being killed to avoid decay. Once they are destroyed they are put infront of a space station and have no choice but to repair, right? So how can they go to deep space to avoid decay? (repair partial then go to deep space?)
And how can u call intentionally causing decay to someone griefing? That is pvp. When I line up on someone, in deep space or not, and he's overt I'm intentionally trying to kill him knowing that in some cases it will cause decay. How is that griefing? He declared himeself overt.
How is targetting engines any different? A kill is a kill, whether he punches out or u destroy the ship it still decays all his components the same no?
Far as I know decay hits u when you take more than a certain amount of damage and try and repair at space stations. Exact numbers I don't know but I think 10% of hp's lost is the ticket. Is that right?
Ducimus
Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:12 pm
#62
Tumbler2002 wrote:
I have to say I'm shocked that people would pvp outside Deep space at all.
And I wish I had some way of knowing this in game so I could join in.
On bria, where PvP is concerned your generally doing 1 of 2 things.
1.) out grinding FP
or
2.) Out hunting the grinders.
I do both.
Even with a decayless sector, i have a feeling most ppl are out to grind FP and not get caught. DS is a sure way to get caught, not to mention not everyone can deal with 15 mobs chasing you at once, or the lag that ensues with umpteen corvettes on screen.
Ironically ppl go to kessel thinking they can hide there, which is really stupid. Kessel is the only place priveteers can FP grind on teir 5's, so you have a bottleneck in that sector. on top of that, its easy pickings on teir 5's which also encourages rebs/imps to go there as well.
But kessel isn't the only place. Theres a number of spots where you can grind on teir 4's. Arugably you can kill teir 4's alot faster then 5's, so over time you probabl yield more FP by shear number of kills.
Dantoine i mention scoring alot of kills because i used to run overt patrols there all the time. When i was still guilded, and an officer of said guild, i made it a goal to ensure imperial domination of space. Stratigicaly, control of dantoine is vital. You can deny kessel and deep space to overt fliers in one fell swoop. I mistakenly believed that control of deepspace = greater influnce on the ground war with faction earned for base purchases. DS in my mind was a resource to be used, or denied. I say mistakenly belived because if anyone acutally farmed the place id be right, but no one really does to my knowlege, and even then, theres plenty of "safe" faction farms on the ground - hence why no one risked going overt in space to begin with.
deadOne
Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:26 pm
#63
OK I'm a master SW and an Ace pilot.
All of my gear except armor is RE'ed
I have spend countless hours piecing together components and balancing my ship. If I were to lose one component to decay I would have to replace 2-3 parts because it would be near impossible to make/RE another component to fit. Things get that tight at master. I am however working on tooling out a PvP ship made with crafted components.
That being said, given the time it takes to tweak and balance a ship, many pilots would be discouraged if after loss of a component they had to spend weeks rebalancing their ship.
I fully support the idea of specialized kits allowing no decay. The concept of the SW overhauling a component (similar to the armor/weapon repair kits available on the ground) is also viable.
The biggest problem I have is that in space PvP I get more wholesale decay in an hour than I would see in a week of PvP on the ground.
Honestly though, I think that before SOE devotes an ungodly amout of resources to space decay they have more important issues in space. Namely content, and giving players reason to go into space(mining won't cut it). If people dont want to fly, balancing space decay is pointless.
All of my gear except armor is RE'ed
I have spend countless hours piecing together components and balancing my ship. If I were to lose one component to decay I would have to replace 2-3 parts because it would be near impossible to make/RE another component to fit. Things get that tight at master. I am however working on tooling out a PvP ship made with crafted components.
That being said, given the time it takes to tweak and balance a ship, many pilots would be discouraged if after loss of a component they had to spend weeks rebalancing their ship.
I fully support the idea of specialized kits allowing no decay. The concept of the SW overhauling a component (similar to the armor/weapon repair kits available on the ground) is also viable.
The biggest problem I have is that in space PvP I get more wholesale decay in an hour than I would see in a week of PvP on the ground.
Honestly though, I think that before SOE devotes an ungodly amout of resources to space decay they have more important issues in space. Namely content, and giving players reason to go into space(mining won't cut it). If people dont want to fly, balancing space decay is pointless.
StressLess
Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:38 pm
#64
I like the overhaul idea, but it should include ship chassis too!
The other thing I'd like to see is the winner getting a item (reward)looted from the loser. It could be either random item or an item agreed on before the fight commences (could be a ship item or general inventory).
Losing should sting, but winning should sing!
KaylBreinhar
Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:48 pm
#65
Tumbler2002 wrote:Kitten_Starsider wrote:As it stands right now most people in PvP use almost only RE'ed components. Most people with rare components go to deep space after they were killed to avoid decay. Few try to establish PvP code of conducts that forbid for example targetting the engine. All of this is fine... and of course intentionally causing decay to someone is griefing.However, I don't think enforcing decay for all PvP or totally removing decay from PvP will make a big impact on shipwright economy here. It makes it more comfortable for the player as they needn't fly to DS for repairs... it removes a possible way of griefing (if done right and not like the tripple incap
Wait I'm confused. U said Most ppl go to deep space after being killed to avoid decay. Once they are destroyed they are put infront of a space station and have no choice but to repair, right? So how can they go to deep space to avoid decay? (repair partial then go to deep space?)
And how can u call intentionally causing decay to someone griefing? That is pvp. When I line up on someone, in deep space or not, and he's overt I'm intentionally trying to kill him knowing that in some cases it will cause decay. How is that griefing? He declared himeself overt.
How is targetting engines any different? A kill is a kill, whether he punches out or u destroy the ship it still decays all his components the same no?
Far as I know decay hits u when you take more than a certain amount of damage and try and repair at space stations. Exact numbers I don't know but I think 10% of hp's lost is the ticket. Is that right?
Where's the fun and gamble in staying in the nice, safe playpen all the time?
Besides, I've recently been doing it for the FP more than the kills in Kessel. It's easier to grind faction there as eight B-Wings aren't simultaneously peppering your ass with missiles on a near-constant basis.
