Pilot Archive
Thread: Missile spamming- what are your views on this?
ProCambarus wrote:
evil_SOCCERMOM wrote:
Goraf wrote:
EfreaK wrote:
I use it as a "hello", letting people know I'm after them.
Works at any range. So from 2-4km I send 1 or 2 dummy missiles.
I'm sure your opponent appreciates wasting several CM shots when you do this too.
An whats wrong with that? I would agree that using it to lag or blind is pretty lame but using it as a anti-countermeasure? I dont see how getting you opponent to waste is chaff is anything but a tacical descision.
I wonder how an exploit requiring no skills, not even being in the vicinity, targeting, etc. considered a tactical decision. Is it a tactical decision to go to a pvp event covert, dry up someone's chaff launcher, then go overt and fire your (or your wingmate's) missiles on them? (Not to mention that with oppressors around you rather launch 3 chaffs/SDs for a warning, and it equals a fast dryup.)Message Edited by ProCambarus on 09-16-2005 02:39 AM
1st Explain to me how it is an exploit? If you think its cheap thats your opinion and I can respect that, but I cannot see any possible rationale for how it is an exploit.
2nd I admit if you were covert and used it waste chaff it would be unfair. However, in a normal (as in DS) PVP situation I don't see the harm in using it as a counter-countermeasure.
If you're such a poor pilot that you have to use a command that isn't supposed to be in game to deplete an opponents resources, you have no right calling yourself an Ace. Seriously. Quit hiding behind excuses and abusing the system, and learn to fly. Do you honestly believe the nonsense you just rambled out? Give me a break.
It doesn't take a whole lot intelligence to see the system already in place. Missiles blow ships up. Countermeasures helpstop missiles. Using an artificial out-of-combat skill to deplete those countermeasures just so you can use missiles to get a kill sounds like cheating to me.
People like you are the reason fun commands are taking out of games.
What I see here concerning this and the Epulse topic is a blatant show of people not knowing what they're talking about. Call me arrogant, call me whatever the hell you like but EP3, Fake missiles, load camping etc is not flying for fun. It is merely griefing. People can whine and complain all they want in order to justify it, but common sense and courtesy towards others in what is an MMO says that these things are wrong and just plain pointless. Use them...people get put off the game. Simple as that. So we want to push people out of space? Fine then. Just do whatever.
People get so caught up with "Oh but you're whining to protect yourego" and make allegations against others such as "OMG!!! you said that!!! I bet you're a loadkiller". Seriously, you speak out against one thing and you get accused of doing another thing equally as frowned upon. Just as a general b*tch against the current influx of stupidity I'm falling witness too...just shut the hell up and get on with the game ok?
Game = fun. Lets preserve it
Being polite and empathising with other people's oppinions costs nothing so just do it. This forum over the past few weeks has been falling along the lines of some of the other forums as of late and yep, I myself have contirbuted in a way but at least I'm speaking out of morals. Yep, morals are a point of view, but I prefer to align mine with common sense even if a lot of the timethey don't suit myself.
I won't be posting in any more of these stupid flame fests. I have a game to play...this much grief shouldn't even exist for pitys sake.
Message Edited by LeaphChausew on 09-15-2005 07:14 PM
Aleigha wrote:
Fun to play with, but that's 'bout it. I didn't realize however y'could target yourself. Now I'm curious. lol
evil_SOCCERMOM wrote:
And yes, I believe every bit of that "nonsense" I "rambled out." As I said before if you wanted to explain why you felt differently I would be happy to listen.
Message Edited by evil_SOCCERMOM on 09-15-2005 08:47 PM
I wasn't going for your intelligence, but between openly contradicting yourself and then quoting me explaining what you are asking me to explain, I'd say it's certainly a valid target.
These threads start to make me irrationally angry. A few months back it was some idiot defending spawncamping because, "alls fair in war and that's what you would really do." Then a few weeks forward it was some goon defending using exploited shields because it only added a few HP. Then we have the epulse camp, and now this thread on the wonderful exploitation of /launchmissile.
Supposedly space was supposed to be a great level playing field. So it'd be nice if people would focus on flying and quit trying to work as many cheap advantages out of the system as possible.
Attacca wrote:
Supposedly space was supposed to be a great level playing field. So it'd be nice if people would focus on flying and quit trying to work as many cheap advantages out of the system as possible.
1st Explain to me how it is an exploit? If you think its cheap thats your opinion and I can respect that, but I cannot see any possible rationale for how it is an exploit.
2nd I admit if you were covert and used it waste chaff it would be unfair. However, in a normal (as in DS) PVP situation I don't see the harm in using it as a counter-countermeasure.
1. With pleasure:
a) Anything that might be used against you while overt seriously affecting your defensive capabilities from someone you cannot affect any way being not overt is obviously not intended (note that in Iraq -if you like this example- everyone is "overt", I really wish no one to be harmed there) and therefore might be considered as an exploit.
b) Anything that might be done from any position/angle/distance, without even seeing the target and still affecting it's defensive capabilities is not intended (using common sense) and therefore using it might be classified as an exploit. (Even for the epulse, that is exempted from measures by most PVPers requires to get somewhat close at least).
c) Anything that does not deplete any ship resources (capacitors, ammunition, etc.) and still affect the defensive... you know the rest.
d) Anything capable to affect computer/network status and result in lag/CTD is not intended as a part of dogfighting tactics and is therefore... yes, that.
2. If I launch, my first task is to run overloads and the second is to get to "normal PVP situation" every time. It happens in all systems and even organized events do not take place in DS, nor can they be arranged there for technical reasons. Trust me, 9 of 10 pilots I encounter are coverts.
Message Edited by ProCambarus on 09-16-2005 04:18 PM
I've thought long and hard about the arguments for and against some of these tactics. This is just MY opinion and none of this is directed at anyone in particular.
First, if it's in the game and it's not an exploit (IOW whatever it is is working as intended) then it's legit for someone to use it. This makes me a bit of a hypoctrite since I do use the very popular and very broken WO3, which IS an exploit in my book. But that's my choice. I'm not the SWG ethics police and I'm not going to run around trying to convince people what they should or should not use/do. If you want to fly your ROTW ship, use Epulse, launchmissle, whatever, that's up to you. It none of my business. Frankly, I've got my own little slice of the universe to keep clean. That said, I do have some personal rules:
1. If you /duel me or otherwise let me know you are there, I consider that a test of skillin which case I would only use missles and guns.
2. If you try to sneak up on me or just attack me, I consider that a test of survival. You are telling me to stop whatever I was doing and be your content. That is your (our) choice and I have no problem with it, but short of /launchmissle (which shouldn't even be in the game, IMO), I'm going to use whatever I have at my disposal. I would expect no less from anyone I attacked. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you have to signal your intentions; afterall, if you aren't ready to fight, you shouldn't be in DS. I'm just saying that for ME I make a distinction btw "ritual combat" and "war". I'm also not saying that you have to play by any rules other than your own.
Personally:
I've used Epulse all of 3 times and only in PvE. I don't even have it hotkeyed. I just never found it very useful.
I HATE /launchmissle and I think it's nothing but a griefer's tool. It's just plain annoying and serves no useful purpose.
The RGI is clearly broke and I wouldn't fly one in PvP for that reason alone.
But once again, that's just me. YMMV. 
Well here's my take on it.
You play the game and as you get better you gain usable skills as described in your tier tree. These are the skills your "Supposed" to be using as you "earned" them within the structure of the game. How you combine those skills and your equiptment and any thing you can do to make that equiptment better (ie RE'd parts) and your own pilot skills is what defines you as a pilot. /launchmissile becomes an exploit when looked at in the context of the game itself. It's' not in your skill tree. You didnt' "earn" it. Using it in PvP is a cheapmove and akin to cheating. Sounds like an exploit to me. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing.
That being said, I can see a use for it, IF (Notice the condition)
Message Edited by BlkGryphon on 09-16-2005 01:20 PM
Attacca wrote:
evil_SOCCERMOM wrote:
And yes, I believe every bit of that "nonsense" I "rambled out." As I said before if you wanted to explain why you felt differently I would be happy to listen.Message Edited by evil_SOCCERMOM on 09-15-2005 08:47 PM
I wasn't going for your intelligence, but between openly contradicting yourself and then quoting me explaining what you are asking me to explain, I'd say it's certainly a valid target.
These threads start to make me irrationally angry. A few months back it was some idiot defending spawncamping because, "alls fair in war and that's what you would really do." Then a few weeks forward it was some goon defending using exploited shields because it only added a few HP. Then we have the epulse camp, and now this thread on the wonderful exploitation of /launchmissile.
Supposedly space was supposed to be a great level playing field. So it'd be nice if people would focus on flying and quit trying to work as many cheap advantages out of the system as possible.
Again I don't understand why you feel it nesscessary to try and insult me but, where was your explanation? If it was the bit about and "Artificial and out of combat skill sounding like cheating," I appologize implicating that you had failed to explain your position. I completely disagree, but as every part of your arguement(assuming that was it), as well as my own, was based on opinion, I glossed over it. I shouldn't have done it and I aplogize.
As for my contradiction, I admitted that I was making one but, I still stand by that statement. I don't see how the fact that I may be as guilty of it as you or other people has any bearing on my intelligence.
As for working cheap advantages out of the system, I, again, disagree. To a point most pilots are trying to work advantages out of the system. Why do you think REing and RotW ships are so popular.
ProCambarus wrote:
1st Explain to me how it is an exploit? If you think its cheap thats your opinion and I can respect that, but I cannot see any possible rationale for how it is an exploit.
2nd I admit if you were covert and used it waste chaff it would be unfair. However, in a normal (as in DS) PVP situation I don't see the harm in using it as a counter-countermeasure.
1. With pleasure:
a) Anything that might be used against you while overt seriously affecting your defensive capabilities from someone you cannot affect any way being not overt is obviously not intended (note that in Iraq -if you like this example- everyone is "overt", I really wish no one to be harmed there) and therefore might be considered as an exploit.
b) Anything that might be done from any position/angle/distance, without even seeing the target and still affecting it's defensive capabilities is not intended (using common sense) and therefore using it might be classified as an exploit. (Even for the epulse, that is exempted from measures by most PVPers requires to get somewhat close at least).
c) Anything that does not deplete any ship resources (capacitors, ammunition, etc.) and still affect the defensive... you know the rest.
d) Anything capable to affect computer/network status and result in lag/CTD is not intended as a part of dogfighting tactics and is therefore... yes, that.
2. If I launch, my first task is to run overloads and the second is to get to "normal PVP situation" every time. It happens in all systems and even organized events do not take place in DS, nor can they be arranged there for technical reasons. Trust me, 9 of 10 pilots I encounter are coverts.Message Edited by ProCambarus on 09-16-2005 04:18 PM
Thank you for responding calmly. A and D I can see how are complaints but could easily be mitigated by not spamming. B and C however are the first arguement in this thread not based on an opinion, and I would agree those 2 factors could cause it to me considered an exploit.
As to your second part, again, if used abusively it, along with anything else, is griefing, but it doesn't make it intrinsically so.