Pilot Archive
Thread: for those of you wondering the size of the JSF compaired to other ships
silverlady wrote:
The SR-71 was taken out of service for a reason...meaning, we have something that performs the same function better/more effeciently. An unmanned spyplane, perhaps?
Lots of rhetoric in this thread that doesn't really matter. Here are the bare facts.
1. The JSF can hold more mass than an A-Wing (this is a BIG pet peeve of mine. The Mass stat is NOT how much mass the ship HAS, it's how much it can HOLD beyond the mass of the bare chassis, in real world terms. Since all components are made of the same basic materials that have the same basic density, the fact that the JSF can hold so much more mass than the A-Wing and yet be smaller in size is patently ludicrous... unless putting that blaster on the JSF chassis magically transforms it into a material that is less dense than it was when it was on your A-Wing.).
2. The JSF is more maneuverable than an A-Wing.
3. The JSF can hold more weapons than an A-Wing.
4. The JSF has a smaller hitbox than an A-Wing.
The above 4 facts are undeniable. The above facts also show that there is a significant difference in capability between the two ships... in other words, either the JSF is overpowered or the A-Wing is underpowered. Raise your hand if you think the A-Wing is underpowered. Did you raise your hand? If you did, it means that you think nearly EVERY ship besides the JSF is underpowered, because the A-Wing is one of the best ships out there for PvP.
Another fact: given equal skill in piloting, equal skill/time taken to load out the ship and equal footing to start the conflict, the JSF pilot will beat the A-Wing pilot nearly every time because of the superiority of the platform.
This is bad for the game. Period.
I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with any of your points Falin, nor has anything to that effect been stated.
However, I do believe I remember the A-wing being called the *cheater ship* once upon a time...maybe my memory is bad, though.
silverlady wrote:
I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with any of your points Falin, nor has anything to that effect been stated.
However, I do believe I remember the A-wing being called the *cheater ship* once upon a time...maybe my memory is bad, though.
Yep, the common complaint among imperials was that the A-wing was overpowered. Go figure.
I do not remember the A-Wing being referred to as a "cheater ship." To me, that title has only ever belonged to the Royal Guard Interceptor, and will belong to it until the ship is fixed (because it is most certainly broken).
The JSF is not a "cheater ship," it's just not a JtL ship. It's an RotW ship. Those are the two classes of ships, and there isn't a wide gray line between them.
To say that they are not unbalancing enough to have an impact on the game is naive.... and wrong. I can't believe that I might have to explain why, as the discussion is all over so many threads, but I also can't understand how a person, who wants us to believe is educated in things regarding SW:G space combat, doesn't see it. *shrug*
Shona
silverlady wrote:
I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with any of your points Falin, nor has anything to that effect been stated.
However, I do believe I remember the A-wing being called the *cheater ship* once upon a time...maybe my memory is bad, though.
FalinMor wrote:
Yeah, until RoTW, the A-Wing was the best PvP ship around. the fact that it was so maneuverable and small made it a real beast to go up against if you were flying something else.
Yes, it was a weapon when utilized correctly. No, it was not the one and only weapon. Standard X-Wings were about as common in the pre-RotW PvP I'd been a part of. Rebel Pilots liked the mass enough to forego the hitbox and handling. Imps loaded out Ints and T/As and used Opps to blow up pesky A-Wings. Freelancers.... tried, but were handicapped to begin with. Frankly, though, the A-Wing IS balanced in an Offense to Agility way to a lot of other JtL ships. The JSF IS NOT, and that is the problem I have with it. The fact that it has a puny hitbox on top makes it worse, but is not the inherent issue.
Shona
SheenaBrelya wrote:
FalinMor wrote:
Yeah, until RoTW, the A-Wing was the best PvP ship around. the fact that it was so maneuverable and small made it a real beast to go up against if you were flying something else.
Yes, it was a weapon when utilized correctly. No, it was not the one and only weapon. Standard X-Wings were about as common in the pre-RotW PvP I'd been a part of. Rebel Pilots liked the mass enough to forego the hitbox and handling. Imps loaded out Ints and T/As and used Opps to blow up pesky A-Wings. Freelancers.... tried, but were handicapped to begin with. Frankly, though, the A-Wing IS balanced in an Offense to Agility way to a lot of other JtL ships. The JSF IS NOT, and that is the problem I have with it. The fact that it has a puny hitbox on top makes it worse, but is not the inherent issue.
Shona
Yeah, that was the special thing about the A-Wing. It took real talent to squeeze out all of its potential... but if you could do it, it was a nightmare to go against one.
The JSF takes a lot of that skill right out of the equation.
silverlady wrote:
Quad:
I did not say that the heavy ships will have less firepower...I said they will be hit harder by a WO3 fix. This cannot be argued. The heavy ships will require ahigh generation reactor to maintain their current levels of performance in terms of engine and weapons.
I disagree. A fix to WO3 will hit light fighters harder than heavy fighters in PvP. The reason is that most heavy fighters can drop down to WO2 without seeing a noticable drop in performance. Right now with WO3, most heavy fighters have surplus damage, i.e., they do more damage than is necessary to one-shot most players. A switch to WO2 won't impact their one-shot ability in most situations. Sure, they won't have that surplus damage anymore, but since that surplus damage was of no use to them in the first place, it won't matter.
On the other hand, many light fighters will lose the ability to one-shot if they drop from WO3 to WO2, especially against heavy fighters. Now, some might choose to drop from EO4 down to EO3, so that they can keep WO3, however, as someone who flies a heavy fighter all the time, I can say that its very obvious when a light fighter I'm going up against is running EO3 instead of EO4. A JSF or Belb22 with an RE'd level 8 engine running EO3 won't be able to outturn a heavy fighter with an RE'd level 8 engine running EO4. The result is that the light fighter makes himself hugely more vulnerable to the guns and missiles from the heavy fighter, and frankly that's a fair trade for being able to keep WO3 running.
Now, in PvE, a fix to WO3 will hit heavy fighters harder, since they don't have any surplus damage to give up in PvE, however considering that heavy fighters are currently quite a bit superior in PvE, I don't see a problem there either.
I'd have to disagree somewhat. In the begginning the A-wing was considered the best PvP ship around, however once people started discovering missiles, I'd say that the Oppressor became the best PvP ship. This especially became true when people figured out that you could hold down the missile-fire button before you got a lock and that your missiles would fire the moment you got the lock. A-wings that used only level 6 engines got ate alive by Oppressor pilots who knew what they were doing. The only A-wings that stood a chance were those that had a level 8 engine and could turn sharp enough to avoid missile lock long enough to score enough hits to drop the Oppressor, and even that became very hard if the Oppressor pilot had a level 10 engine loaded. Now, once their missiles ran out the Oppressors back then were in trouble, but that only happened in prolonged large scale PvP battles. Keep in mind though, that Weapon Overload affects missiles, too, so if WO3 ever gets fixed, an Oppressor pilot who drops down to WO2won't be able to rely onhis missiles quite as much ashe can right now.
FalinMor wrote:
Yeah, until RoTW, the A-Wing was the best PvP ship around. the fact that it was so maneuverable and small made it a real beast to go up against if you were flying something else.
Imaridril wrote:
I'd have to disagree somewhat. In the begginning the A-wing was considered the best PvP ship around, however once people started discovering missiles...
FalinMor wrote:
Yeah, until RoTW, the A-Wing was the best PvP ship around....
That was the beauty of the JtL balance. The A-Wing wasn't an end-all in PvP, but it worked well against a T/A. The Opp wasn't an end-all in PvP, but it worked well against the A-Wing. Opps had their own drawbacks, making them vulnerable to certain tactics. There was choice, and pilot skill mattered a whole lot more than chassis choice.
Shona
PaceNebulon wrote:
Damn... I didn't think the vaksai was that big.Edit: anyone have pics of a vaksai and an x-wing? kinda interested in seeing how they compare.Message Edited by PaceNebulon on 09-01-2005 11:42 AM
yeah, you can find them in here
Ducimus wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
Damn... I didn't think the vaksai was that big.
Edit: anyone have pics of a vaksai and an x-wing? kinda interested in seeing how they compare.
Message Edited by PaceNebulon on 09-01-2005 11:42 AM
yeah, you can find them in here
cool... thanks