Pilot Archive
Thread: How many of you use 'Pre-Nerf' Droid Interfaces..?
Arrain, you're definately right. I'm a huge advocate of fair play and I still use my prenerf DI. I dunno how much it really affects pvp, as my ship setups tend to make shunting rather useless. If I take a hit on my nose (I use shield adjust front heavy) it usually knocks out atleastmost of my armor as well. Shunting won't save me from another hit. My ship is designed to take one hitat most. 
This does however strike a chord in me. Honestly I'd hate to wait for a 30 sec DI to run my startup commands, but maybe thats what I'll have to do to back up my fair play claims. Like I said 30 sec is fast enough for me in a pvp fight and I can think of a dozen things that I could spend the mass necessary for a fast DI on. Namely a chaff launcher and more front armor.
Pre-nerf Infernos and Incom Military Grade engines.
Pre-nerf MKII Spacebomb launchers weighing in at *gasp* 6.3K mass
Ive got a pre-nerf but its only a 850 mass 22 spd one, you can loot 850 mass 30 speed ones so its not to bad.
If i have the mass i put in my 12spd 7k mass one.
So, for the people who started flying right at the start of JTL like me, and looted the DI's and were rewarded the engines fair and square should hand them in because we have an "unfair advantage"?
Being a vet, gives you the opportunity to loot some better stuff. A guy who's been flying for 12 months, is gonna have the chance to have better parts than a guy who's been flying for 3 months, unless they are extremely lucky. Solo had a heavily modified YT-1300, maybe he had a pre-nerf DI and Icom Military grade engine, that let him do the Kessel run in 15 parsecs?
I see it as something I came across in my duites, I'm more than happy to use something that a one time enemy was using against me. Mines only got 9.9 armour on it, but I'm never ever gonna stop using it. My Pre-nerf engine has already been RE'd so I suppose we cant comment on that now, as it doesn't technically exist.
Ducimus wrote:
>> I was perfectly happy to remain at 3:3 with you , ya know
Oh me too acutally. Its not like im thinking "Ohh i cant want to get at leaph again!"
But if i go imp, us bumping into each other while overt is bound to happen at some point. In all sarchasm, i mean what are we gonna do, say "please don't shoot me?"
That'd be funny at an event.
"Oh, hello there old chap"
"Truce?"
"Well our forces are obliterating each other"
"Quite, I know, lets have a cup of tea"
But yeh, I don't mind. I think it'd be fun. It just occurred to me too. I wonder if the people who go on about pre nerf DIs use WO3? In my view, most people do some things which could be frowned upon (apart from me of course becase I really am perfect 
) but the thing is...that happens in everyday life too. There is just a line which should be drawn.
As I see it, anything which can be countered or improved upon is fair. For example, some people say missiles are an 'I win' button but that is incorrect because chaff is easily obtainable and plus missiles take some conscious effort to lock on. Against a good pilot they can be really hard to get a lock on. I don't use missiles, but I do have chaff so I don't complain. As for EP3 etc though, it can't be countered (if I can't do it or any other so called 'veteran' pilot can't do it I sincerely doubt that it is possible)...not realistically anyway so if I were Freelance, I definitly wouldn't use it.
As for re'd/pre-nerf parts, well they're an option for everybody and yeh take a bit of effort to obtain but for those who do use them well they've had to work hard to get them. They've spent a long time using worse parts in order to earn the better parts so you can't just steal away from that and suggest the're having an easy ride. Also as I explained in a previous post, re'd parts aren't the be all and end all anyway. The only place I can see crafted parts being at a really harsh disadvantage is in a low mass ship with one weapon slot. Crafted engines can be utilised in an efficient manner. While the game has the JSF and GSF which can be obtained by everyone (if they're willing to go Imp for a bit) noone has any reason to complain about setting up a ship for pvp efficiently.
At the end of the day, people just have to adjust the way they fly. I'm constantly doing it. Back on Bria, I could get away with flying with little effort and could rely on the same tactics in each engagement. If I face someone who happens to be overt, who attacks me first but has a really horribly set up ship and I proceed to waste them, I feel a little bad about it. I mean..it just isn't anything to write home about when your enemy hasn't a clue. Now I'm on Starsider and everyone has their own ideas on what is a good ship setup. In fact, many views are different from my own and I've actually adopted a few of other's views myself now and even a few people with ships which consist of almost completely crafted parts can hold their own because they apply the parts to ships which can get away with them. Most noteable, the TIE Oppressor. I know a few high speed missile boats which can give me the occasional problem because of their hit and run tactics and when a ship is faster than yours, they lead the fight. Yep, you will probably beat them in a circle, but if they choose to lead you along and make you give chase (which is risky but can be done), the ball is in their court until they decide to flip around and engage you. Also in group pvp, it is much often general situational awareness and playing your part in the team which gets you alot further.
I'm rambling again, but I guess the point is that I think too much emphasis is being put upon parts being the deciding factor and not the pilot and the fact that not everything involving JTLS can be put into black and white
As for re'd/pre-nerf parts, well they're an option for everybody and yeh take a bit of effort to obtain but for those who do use them well they've had to work hard to get them. They've spent a long time using worse parts in order to earn the better parts so you can't just steal away from that and suggest the're having an easy ride. Also as I explained in a previous post, re'd parts aren't the be all and end all anyway. The only place I can see crafted parts being at a really harsh disadvantage is in a low mass ship with one weapon slot. Crafted engines can be utilised in an efficient manner. While the game has the JSF and GSF which can be obtained by everyone (if they're willing to go Imp for a bit) noone has any reason to complain about setting up a ship for pvp efficiently.
I'm rambling again, but I guess the point is that I think too much emphasis is being put upon parts being the deciding factor and not the pilot and the fact that not everything involving JTLS can be put into black and white
Message Edited by Arrain on 09-17-2005 01:15 PM
Arrain wrote:
As for re'd/pre-nerf parts, well they're an option for everybody and yeh take a bit of effort to obtain but for those who do use them well they've had to work hard to get them. They've spent a long time using worse parts in order to earn the better parts so you can't just steal away from that and suggest the're having an easy ride. Also as I explained in a previous post, re'd parts aren't the be all and end all anyway. The only place I can see crafted parts being at a really harsh disadvantage is in a low mass ship with one weapon slot. Crafted engines can be utilised in an efficient manner. While the game has the JSF and GSF which can be obtained by everyone (if they're willing to go Imp for a bit) noone has any reason to complain about setting up a ship for pvp efficiently.
I'm rambling again, but I guess the point is that I think too much emphasis is being put upon parts being the deciding factor and not the pilot and the fact that not everything involving JTLS can be put into black and white
mm.. I can't help but feel you've missed the point a little in the opening few sentences of this quote - I'm not suggesting that reverse engineered parts are somehow an unfair advantage - they're not, as I said in an earlier post in this thread, anyone can obtain extremely good reverse engineered parts given the time, skill and so on to do so. The difference is that for a pre-nerf droid interface, no one can now obtain one that does not have one already (short of finding one for cheap on the bazaar for example, which again as I said seems to be unlikely, and morally questionable in that the person selling it may well not realise it's 'value' if they're selling it cheap).It should be abundantly clear to all experienced pilots that certain levels of equipment have parameters. Almost universally, higher mass tends to result in better performance from that component (I acknowledge that in some component parts this is not necessarily the case, such as a level 6 engine often outperforming a level 7, however its fair to say that as you increase in levels/mass of any component, the general performance gain increases).This is not the pattern in the case of pre-nerf droid interfaces. It appears clear that the developers of SWG did not intend for droid interfaces to be available with both extremely low mass and a low latency (high performance) value. For example, a 500 mass 15.0 speed pre-nerf interfaceis about equal in performance tothe comparable present interface at around 6-7k mass. This means if I want to have the same droid interface speed as you in my ship, I have to lose 5.5-6.5k of mass off my other components.In a ship like the TIE Advanced, 5k mass (the generous low side of the equation) is 13% of my ship's total mass capacity. It essentially means I have one fifth less 'ship' to put components onto, meaning that I have to take either lower value shields, lower armour, sacrifice a chaff launcher, a worse engine or weapons etc.To be clear, I don't believe anyone begrudges experienced pilots who have taken the time to reverse engineer some superb components for their ships, nor am I or anyone else making the argument that skill isn'tthe fundamental deciding factor in any given encounter, usually more so than raw components. The issue I am raising is this:- In the context of 'fair play' threads, I am aiming to demonstrate (albeit perhaps too subtly) that people's concepts of what is fair and what is not are very different. Its not about who plays fair and who plays to win on a simple continuum as such, but rather that there are varying degrees of moral judgement on not just one continuum, but on each and every factor involved. For example I stand at different points of 'fair' on many of the issues discussed in other threads: I don't use my RGI because I think its 'unfair', I do use my JSF because I like it and think it is 'fair' although I would prefer to use my TIE Advanced if I felt it was competitive, I don't agree with launching fake missiles at people to get them to waste chaff, I don't think spawncamping the DS entry points is 'fair', and I'm undecided on whether I consider it 'fair' to use a pre-nerf droid interface because it was firstly unintended to perfom as it does, but secondly *could* be viewed as a perk of being a long-time pilot.Message Edited by Arrain on 09-17-2005 01:15 PM
i think you are missing the point people are posting in return though. you say the prenerf allows the tie advanced to fit on more equipment.
stop and consider for a second that it does not. it merely allows the tie advanced to use faster commands.
does this translate to a distinct tactical advantage in PVE? i personally don't think so, in my experience.
does this translate to a distinct tactical advantage in PVP? again, i personally have never seen a fight won by a prenerf DI. not before i used one, not after i used one.
so, if no advatage is gained, where is the pilots concept of fair play skewed?
i think leaph hit the nail on the head. too often people fall back on excuses. "oh your engine" "but but, your equipment" "well, you DO have a prenerf DI and I don't"
not often enough to people apprieciate that the pilot has merely taken the advantages and disadvantages of his ship, weighed them appropriately, then applied their equipment to capitalize on that advantage. now, if there was a pilot out there who built his ship around a fast stunt PVP technique, i'd say that's questionable. but considering how unfeasable that really is, i'd likely look the other way and applaud that pilots ingenuity.
Well, if all the antique ships are better than the new, current ones... why not use a better antique DI? 
In ships where I've got the mass though, I've improved the DI by moving up to a higher-level RE'd one. I can get faster than the 15.x speed of the prenerf ones, and have some more armor and hit points to work with.
mal
It's a convienance item. Its like in normal PvE or PvP, how often does an accomplished pilot really shunt?
The only difference a prenerf DI makes is how long i sit at the station setting my overloads - thats it. If i didnt have a Prenerf DI, id make myself a MK I or MK II DI with the best resources i could get my grubby mitts on, the only difference is how long i go AFK while waiting for the DI to reset.
As for PVP, heres a hint if its in DS, you dont need to sit at station. Start your overload sequence and hyper. After a hyper the DI is reset, so if you ran RO4 and hypered, you could run EO4 immediatly after coming out of lightspeed. By the time you reach your DS station you could run CO3, and changing into DS, you could run WO3 immediatly after zone in. This is how you get around DI delay while suffring from massive attition rates in DS
