Pilot Archive
Thread: Now that the 0 mass fix is in....
Ducimus
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:30 am
#27
LeaphChausew wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Spoken like a true Bria'an. Glad i left that damn server.
Does that mean I suck because I'm still playing on Bria?
Come on Leaph, you know that servers cheated out the gills and has a lot of bad attitudes as well as i.
Treena_Daal
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:30 am
#28
LeaphChausew wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Spoken like a true Bria'an. Glad i left that damn server.
Does that mean I suck because I'm still playing on Bria?
Rapax doesn't love us anymore.
*EDIT - And he'd dodging the question*
Message Edited by Treena_Daal on 08-05-2005 11:30 AM
Ducimus
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:34 am
#29
Treena_Daal wrote:
LeaphChausew wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Spoken like a true Bria'an. Glad i left that damn server.
Does that mean I suck because I'm still playing on Bria?
Rapax doesn't love us anymore.
*EDIT - And he'd dodging the question*Message Edited by Treena_Daal on 08-05-2005 11:30 AM
No, i wub you guys, leave bria now! You know you want to!
Treena_Daal
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:40 am
#30
I don't jump servers very well. I wouldn't have the inventory room to do it, for starters. Other than my ships (which I love), my favorite thing is my house. I wouldn't be able to leave it behind, as it is finally starting to really come together (now that I got all of my RE parts out of there, so I have some room to decorate).
S-1-l2-H-C
Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:11 am
#31
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Dragon942 wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Dare I say....Idiot?
And good to know you can't launch the ships overloaded with these parts. Though they should have just made the mass 50 Million so you couldn't use them on anything.
I wouldnt be surprised if hes actually right. Think about it.
Dev - "I know what would be cool, lets say your a SW and get your hands on a KSE disk, right? You can then use the plans in it to RE an even better piece of equipment!"
BossDev - "Sounds good, right it up, Im busy writing this fix that we said was fixed 3 publishes ago."
1 year later.
BossDev - "Remember that cool idea about REs and KSE disks you had? Well, its buggering up the game now. Well done, have a pay rise!"
Dev - "Thanks, should Iwrite a "fix", if you know what i mean?"
BossDev - "Sure, but call it an exploit and just wipe em all out. You need to spend more time on doing lightsaber animations!"
i put three tickets to try and find out if this was the case, the first two were the usualy bs saying use /bug, and the third was "game is working as intended".
now more than likely the csr was full of it and had no idea what he was talking about, but its stilla possibility.
either way it was extremely unbalanced and needed to be fixed.
LeaphChausew
Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:26 pm
#32
Ducimus wrote:
LeaphChausew wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Spoken like a true Bria'an. Glad i left that damn server.
Does that mean I suck because I'm still playing on Bria?
Come on Leaph, you know that servers cheated out the gills and has a lot of bad attitudes as well as i.
/activatedenial
-Leaph
TomoRainer
Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:56 pm
#33
The imbalances this exploit brought to space make it impossible to believe it was intentional. Some intentional mechanics result in very unexpected outcomes, but you don't need a year of "Let's see how it goes" with this one to know 0-mass parts would be a bad idea.
Besides, looking at the mechanics of the exploit, you can see exactly how the loophole was opened:
a) You need to be able to RE KSE fragments to create a Firespray schematic.
b) KSE fragments, however, aren't given any visible stats, because they don't need any.. and, as an oversight, they're given no restrictions on being RE'd with non-KSE frags.
c) So when you're REing a frag with loot, and the RE process is running over those stats where a lower number is better, it runs into the KSE frag and treats all its lack of stats as 0s.
d) Thus, end product comes out with 0 mass, 0 reactor drain, etc.
Completely unintentional, in other words. The only reason it ever existed is because they weren't able to see all the complexities to including two different systems--the KSE fragment system, and the loot REing system--into the same basic framework of component analysis.
That's my take on it, anyway.
Besides, looking at the mechanics of the exploit, you can see exactly how the loophole was opened:
a) You need to be able to RE KSE fragments to create a Firespray schematic.
b) KSE fragments, however, aren't given any visible stats, because they don't need any.. and, as an oversight, they're given no restrictions on being RE'd with non-KSE frags.
c) So when you're REing a frag with loot, and the RE process is running over those stats where a lower number is better, it runs into the KSE frag and treats all its lack of stats as 0s.
d) Thus, end product comes out with 0 mass, 0 reactor drain, etc.
Completely unintentional, in other words. The only reason it ever existed is because they weren't able to see all the complexities to including two different systems--the KSE fragment system, and the loot REing system--into the same basic framework of component analysis.
That's my take on it, anyway.
CuchulainnDarklight
Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:33 pm
#34
TomoRainer wrote:
The imbalances this exploit brought to space make it impossible to believe it was intentional. Some intentional mechanics result in very unexpected outcomes, but you don't need a year of "Let's see how it goes" with this one to know 0-mass parts would be a bad idea.
Besides, looking at the mechanics of the exploit, you can see exactly how the loophole was opened:
a) You need to be able to RE KSE fragments to create a Firespray schematic.
b) KSE fragments, however, aren't given any visible stats, because they don't need any.. and, as an oversight, they're given no restrictions on being RE'd with non-KSE frags.
c) So when you're REing a frag with loot, and the RE process is running over those stats where a lower number is better, it runs into the KSE frag and treats all its lack of stats as 0s.
d) Thus, end product comes out with 0 mass, 0 reactor drain, etc.
Completely unintentional, in other words. The only reason it ever existed is because they weren't able to see all the complexities to including two different systems--the KSE fragment system, and the loot REing system--into the same basic framework of component analysis.
That's my take on it, anyway.
HEHE, guess you arent as cynical as myself then!
On another point if as you say above "The only reason it ever existed is because they weren't able to see all the complexities to including two different systems", can we assume that that is the reason why there is sch a disparity between preROTW and ROTW ships?
Just a thought.
TomoRainer
Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:16 pm
#35
Well, in this game and probably the world in general, I think too many people mistake oversight or incompetence for willful stupidity or intentional meanness. The developers of this game are basically designing the laws of physics for a universe and the laws of man for a society, and so, many times for them, problems don't arise from incompetence so much as not actually being omnipotent gods who can predict all the outcomes of the ludicrous complexity of an MMO.
I do think that's the main reason why the RotW ships are so much better than the JTL ones: I'm certain they understood the new ships are superior, and in fact meant them to be good enough to make them and the expansion a lot of fun, but maybe they couldn't predict the full extent of that superiority.. let alone all the ways it's permeated space.
Complicating factors on that are the new ships aren't evenly distributed across factions, which (legitimately) inflames partisan concerns, and that one of the most outstanding PVP ships is from the new trilogy, which just doesn't sit right with a lot of people. Those two things wouldn't be hard to guess, though. The only real defense I can see for them is that, given the necessary timing of the expansion and the somewhat asymmetrical nature of factions in space, there just wasn't any way around it.
Anyway, humans might not have omniscient foresight, but we should have the ability to at least predict the major outcomes of a change, if not their magnitudes--and we do have pretty good hindsight. So there is a lot of room for accountability here, particularly when problems are identified and analyzed but go unaddressed for too long, or aren't even recognized as problems.
That's when I get cynical. But I try not to assign blame when it just seems more likely that it simply wasn't possible to understand the full consequences of a change--and that, I think, happens with pretty much every change that's ever made.
I do think that's the main reason why the RotW ships are so much better than the JTL ones: I'm certain they understood the new ships are superior, and in fact meant them to be good enough to make them and the expansion a lot of fun, but maybe they couldn't predict the full extent of that superiority.. let alone all the ways it's permeated space.
Complicating factors on that are the new ships aren't evenly distributed across factions, which (legitimately) inflames partisan concerns, and that one of the most outstanding PVP ships is from the new trilogy, which just doesn't sit right with a lot of people. Those two things wouldn't be hard to guess, though. The only real defense I can see for them is that, given the necessary timing of the expansion and the somewhat asymmetrical nature of factions in space, there just wasn't any way around it.
Anyway, humans might not have omniscient foresight, but we should have the ability to at least predict the major outcomes of a change, if not their magnitudes--and we do have pretty good hindsight. So there is a lot of room for accountability here, particularly when problems are identified and analyzed but go unaddressed for too long, or aren't even recognized as problems.
That's when I get cynical. But I try not to assign blame when it just seems more likely that it simply wasn't possible to understand the full consequences of a change--and that, I think, happens with pretty much every change that's ever made.
CuchulainnDarklight
Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:19 pm
#36
But Tomo, everyone is willfully against me, they are watching me, recording everything, then adding in ROTW ships when im not watching its a conspiracy I tell you.
Mr. X will find the truth!
Hold on there is someone at my door, I better get it!
WHAT THE FU..........................
*transmission terminated*
Slysix
Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:46 pm
#37
The problem is really not with the unintended results as programmed by the developers but instead with the end user who is willing to abuse the unintended result and thus making it into an exploit.
So it now becomes a moral decision that one has to personally take...
Take the high road ... or the low road ... that is a choice one has to make.
The 0 mass problem is fixed, but 0 droid speed, 0 consumption boosters, 0 maintenance are not.
Now how many people will still be willing using those parts?
Some people will say....It's just a game...it hurts no one...
Yeah...I guess....but then big lies start off a little ones too.
So it now becomes a moral decision that one has to personally take...
Take the high road ... or the low road ... that is a choice one has to make.
The 0 mass problem is fixed, but 0 droid speed, 0 consumption boosters, 0 maintenance are not.
Now how many people will still be willing using those parts?
Some people will say....It's just a game...it hurts no one...
Yeah...I guess....but then big lies start off a little ones too.
noggs
Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:51 pm
#38
Dragon942 wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Dare I say....Idiot?And good to know you can't launch the ships overloaded with these parts. Though they should have just made the mass 50 Million so you couldn't use them on anything.
Dare I say....Noob? Umm it wasn't exploit idiot. The Devs made something that got way to out of hand, so guess what they fixed. There weren't suspentions/bans for using 0mass parts.
Message Edited by noggs on 08-06-2005 10:55 PM
noggs
Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:52 pm
#39
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Dragon942 wrote:
noggs wrote:
The KSE Disk REs were not Exploits, they just got way to unbalanced.
Dare I say....Idiot?And good to know you can't launch the ships overloaded with these parts. Though they should have just made the mass 50 Million so you couldn't use them on anything.
I wouldnt be surprised if hes actually right. Think about it.Dev - "I know what would be cool, lets say your a SW and get your hands on a KSE disk, right? You can then use the plans in it to RE an even better piece of equipment!"
BossDev - "Sounds good, right it up, Im busy writing this fix that we said was fixed 3 publishes ago."
1 year later.
BossDev - "Remember that cool idea about REs and KSE disks you had? Well, its buggering up the game now. Well done, have a pay rise!"
Dev - "Thanks, should I write a "fix", if you know what i mean?"
BossDev - "Sure, but call it an exploit and just wipe em all out. You need to spend more time on doing lightsaber animations!"
Uhh, thank you even though that post is a joke, it still probably explains how it is a exploit.