Pilot Archive

Thread: Serious Problem: Target Hit Registered Visually But Deals No Damage Please voice your support!

Nacoa
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:09 pm
#27

Ever since beta, people have been claiming a top/bottom invulnerability bug that has never been present.

What is going on is the lead indicator is off, and it's off by a different amount depending on your speed, the target's speed, the angle between you and the target, and the relatively slow speed that the target indicator moves. So the distance you have to adjust from the lead indicator constantly varies.

During beta, I killed many ships from the top and bottom when many were insisting that the top and bottom were invulnerable. Now people are claiming the same, and I'm still killing ships from the top and bottom.





I'm baaaaaack
And it looks like I'll be going again.

ActiveNick
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:09 pm
#28

And another thread on the same matter:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lightspeed&message.id=129243


and here is an interesting quote I found in there which might explain some stuff I'm experiencing:






There's actually two different invulnerability bugs and one "feature" that combine to make ships un-killable.
The first is the top/bottom invuln bug. Most people know about that one.
The "feature" is that once you disable a target, no other player can hit it for damage. I assume this was put in place to stop a person from griefing missions by killing disabled targets that people are trying to dock with.
The second bug is that after a ship is disabled, even the pilot who disabled it in the first place cannot damage the ship for 5 to 10 seconds. Essentially, disabled ships are temporarily invulnerable from all angles, even to the pilot who caused the ship to be disabled.
These two bugs and one feature make killing certain craft extremely challenging in JTL. SOE has acknowledged the existence of the first bug, but not the second. Hopefully they'll both get squashed soon.
~S




I'm really hoping we'll get some dev attention soon over this matter.




Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

ActiveNick
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:15 pm
#29






Cabbenie wrote:

oh yeah and i have these exact same problems on Sunrunner, Scylla AND Starsider. so if its server lag its kind of spreading i think lol. and i know about the target reticle thing being seriously inacurate too. im talking about SEEING my shots hit. and THEN not doing damage. not watching my shots got wide off out into space. when they go widei just suck and i MISSED. thats not the issue here. the issue is what is described in the top post.





Yup, I'm good but I miss too. When that happens, I curse myself and no one else. But if the game shows me a hit, it should be a registered hit that deals damage. I never meant to say the targeting reticle was off, it's supposed to be.


But registered hit should deal damage. Period.


If you do not have this problem, I believe you. But as you can see, many of us do, so let's keep this high in the dev priority list.





Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

Mejowepra
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:18 pm
#30

Couldn't agree more. This really is a major issue with JTL over all other space sims. It's probably related to the fact that the lead indicator is also never correct. Now I can still hit ships without it but it's really annoying to have one which basically is pointless. It does show when the ships change directions but that's about it.




Mejowepra: Final Spec: MD/MTKA

zut-oltah
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:18 pm
#31


it's lag. or it is for me.


i get the same thing where all the sudden my shots aren't landing. i wait till i get the : ship suddenly drops to zero speed, camera and ship do a little jump around like warping, then engines jump back to whatever speed i was at. low and behold my hits start landing again.




90-100 ping on cable modem with 0 packet loss {which is a lie since there isALWAYSpacket loss unless you are running the server}



diffenitely annouying as hell when trying to kill tier 4 black suns on my duty mission. sometimes can take up to 5 minutes to get"resync'd"and flying in circles taking damage from ships i can't hit cause i'm in "lagged-space" isn't cool.


here's hoping that this is from JTL being so "new" because at up to 4Mbits per second modem speed such horrid lag {even with status screen showing 90-100 ping and 25-35fps} isn't cool and neither is the "rubber-banding" that occurs in space.



but i still enjoy JTL. .....and hope it stays that way after master.


Message Edited by zut-oltah on 11-02-2004 11:21 AM



------------------
ssess | azroth

- U - ...........
Nacoa
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:21 pm
#32


ActiveNick wrote:
But if the game shows me a hit, it should be a registered hit that deals damage. I never meant to say the targeting reticle was off, it's supposed to be.

But registered hit should deal damage. Period.



There are 2 types of hits. Glancing blows will light up the target's shields, for example, but will not do damage. Direct hits will actually do damage. It's much easier to land a glancing blow, which means you're off by just a little bit.





I'm baaaaaack
And it looks like I'll be going again.

Mejowepra
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:21 pm
#33



jassi007 wrote:
it is screwy, and a little irritating, but it works. As long as you remember to shoot empty space somewhere between the lead indicator and the ship, you'll land shots. Once I had that figured out, I don't find jtl to be too difficult. Just wish the y-wing wasn't such a pig!




This here shows exactly why this needs to be fixed. To be skilled in JTL you need to... 1) not use lead indicator, 2) make sure not to actually HIT the ship. Right.

And btw, I'm a pretty good pilot too, currently at 3222 (having solod the first tier 3 mission).




Mejowepra: Final Spec: MD/MTKA

ActiveNick
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:25 pm
#34






Nacoa wrote:




ActiveNick wrote:
But if the game shows me a hit, it should be a registered hit that deals damage. I never meant to say the targeting reticle was off, it's supposed to be.


But registered hit should deal damage. Period.



There are 2 types of hits. Glancing blows will light up the target's shields, for example, but will not do damage. Direct hits will actually do damage. It's much easier to land a glancing blow, which means you're off by just a little bit.




I hit square in the middle from the back or from the side very often and still get no damage. This ain't no glancing blow. And then a few seconds later, after the server resync with the speed drop to zero and then full back up, the exact same shot on the same spot that did no damage 10 seconds before now blows up the target.


Conclusion: bug.


Solution: fix!






Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

Mejowepra
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:26 pm
#35



ActiveNick wrote:
Found another thread on this issue:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lightspeed&message.id=129761
Based on this, and a few more posts in here, a few conclusions:
  • I am not crazy, others have this problem.
  • You are all right: not everyone has this problem.
  • This is a known bug... hence my call for prioritizing it.
  • I repeat, I am not crazy... lol





It's very well known and the cause is known, and as you say: client / server sync issue. It would probably mainly be dependent on server load and internet connection latency I'm guessing.

For those that say "it's not a problem", remember how in the ground game you get or at least used to get, lots of "out of range" problems with melee professions even though you were right next to your target? This is the same issue, except here we don't get out of range, we just don't hit.




Mejowepra: Final Spec: MD/MTKA

Mejowepra
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:33 pm
#36



Nacoa wrote:

ActiveNick wrote:
But if the game shows me a hit, it should be a registered hit that deals damage. I never meant to say the targeting reticle was off, it's supposed to be.

But registered hit should deal damage. Period.



There are 2 types of hits. Glancing blows will light up the target's shields, for example, but will not do damage. Direct hits will actually do damage. It's much easier to land a glancing blow, which means you're off by just a little bit.


No offense, but this is not a "glancing blow" issue (how the heck do you get a "glancing blow" with a blaster on a shield anyway? if you hit you hit!). It's a client/server sync issue, and a pretty obvious one at that. If you don't get affected by it, good for you. Many of us do.

Some other random comments:

The network monitor is not correct. Mine shows 130 ms/0 packet loss. Always. I have a fast connection (World of Warcraft has a 40-50 ms latency showing, and pings are always a lot lower than 130 ms for example), so 130 ms seems high. Also yesterday I had some downloading/uploading going which I forgot about and I couldn't hit a single thing in my new and shiny X-wing. Latency still said 130 ms although it obviously was way higher. After stopping the bandwidth usage, I could hit things again and my ping was STILL 130 ms. So I wouldn't believe that number at all.




Mejowepra: Final Spec: MD/MTKA

ActiveNick
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:00 pm
#37






MonteBruno wrote:

btw... I do not have this client server problem you speak of. 1gig ram, radeon 9700. dsl.


I dont think what you are moaning about is happening to ALL of us, therefore, I dont think it's a code problem. More of hardware. Yes I'm a software architect too.


Bottom line, I disagree with your "killer shot" theory, and all that other stuff you spend a long time writing. I've palyed all the games you mention, ALWAYS at the most difficult setting from the first day, so I know my sims also, (like I'm sure the devs know theirs) , and from what I've seen, the flight model in this game is awesome, th game design is excellent. No complaints. None.





I never said everybody had the problem, but if you read the whole thread, and the other threads I have linked, you'll have to agree many many have this problem.


It *could* be code-related if that code fails to cover the whole range of hardware contexts possible under the minimum and recommended specs. And btw,I have the recommended hardware specs, not minimum. To the other guy who posted above, he should know that a 1.7 GHz Centrino processor is a rough equivalent of a 3 GHz P4. True, my laptop is not a dedicated gaming machine, but I have no crap running in it and it still easily meets the recommended game specs, which means the game should run fine and unaffected by hardware issues.


Just don't be so negative. If you have no problem, then great for you, go enjoy the game. But many of us have problems and we'd need them resolved,I fail to see why this annoys you. My post was well written and constructive and I did not stoop to dev-bashing, so please stop harrassing us for raising concerns. This is a discussion, nothing more. And if you reread my post, you'd see I congratulated the devs on their work, I am merely pointing out one big problem which affects many of us. Yes the flight model is awesome, I never contested that, it's the architecture used to implement that model that still seems to have a flaw.


Bottom line: If we play on systems that meet the recommended hardware specs, we should get a bug free play experience. And as a software architect you should know that less-than-perfect code can mean working well for some and working bad for others.


And yes, I played at the top difficulty level in the 3 games in the X-Wing/TIE series for those who asked and doubt my skills. i want to restate this discussion is not about my piloting skills but about this so-called invulnerability registered-hits-that-deal-no-damage bug.


Message Edited by ActiveNick on 11-02-2004 04:04 PM




Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

ActiveNick
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:03 pm
#38

I will not let this thread die...




Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

vnicula
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:04 pm
#39

"To the other guy who posted above, he should know that a 1.7 GHz Centrino processor is a rough equivalent of a 3 GHz P4."

NO, the performance of a 1.7 Ghz Centrino is 64%-66% compared to a rusty 3Ghz P4.


Anyway many of you don't need/want help, just a little attention.


YOU CANT BULLSEYE SHOT IN JTL.FIRE A LOTAND ADJUST YOUR POSITIONUNTIL YOU DEAL DAMAGE.


thats how i made it to imp 4433 in 12 hrs.



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