Pilot Archive
Thread: Yaw & Pitch are more important than top speed!..... or are they?
Alristico wrote:
I was actually refering to the acc/dec that affect the rate at which you go from 0 degrees to the max yaw or pitch degree. Is thisdecided by thechassis too?
Those stats are determined by the chassis. Your ship has four acceleration and decerleration stats. One each for speed, pitch, yaw, and roll. The acceleration and deceleration numbers for speed determine how quickly you can change throttle settings. The acceleration and deceleration numbers for pitch, yaw, and roll determine how sluggish your ship is and how much oversteer it has. All of these numbers are set by the chassis you use. The only one you can get around isspeed acceleration, since you can use a booster to more rapidly get to a higher speed if you have a ship with very lowspeed acceleration, such as one of the POB ships.
A while ago Harotak and I dida little bit of testing. We were both in TIE advanceds. He had a post-nerf level 6 reward engine loaded, and I had a pre-nerf level 6 reward engine loaded. Both had the exact same pitch stats. The post-nerf one, despite having a slower top speed, turneda tighter circle. That being said, high speed can still have its uses in PvP. I fly with a 108.4 speed level 8 engine and a fast mark III booster. A tactic I like to use a lot if I can't get a bead on someone while up close is to boost away, using my high speed to get out of range quickly, and then spin around and try to get another missile lock. Also, in large scale PvP events, turning a tight circle can sometimes be a hinderance. It might give you an advantage against the person you're dogfighting with, but you make yourself an easier target for an outside fighter to pick off, especially if your side is outnumbered.
Also, keep in mind that most good pilots don't just pitch up the whole time while dogfighting. Most will yaw back and forth the whole time, too, to keep their movement less predictable. This means that instead of flying in a circle, their instead making a zig-zag path around a sphere. If you're up against someone that you just can't outturn, trying zig-zagging less while turning and move closer towards a more direct straight pitch-up path. This will make you an easier target, but it might just give you a chance to get your nose ahead of them and score a lucky shot. You have to be quick about it, though. Once you start pitching-up without any yaw they'll be able to get a bead on you very quickly.
Imaridril wrote:
Alristico wrote:
I was actually refering to the acc/dec that affect the rate at which you go from 0 degrees to the max yaw or pitch degree. Is thisdecided by thechassis too?
Those stats are determined by the chassis.
Alristico wrote:
you too are under the assumption that yp is much better for turning than top speed is.this very well could be true but I've never seen any real data to back this up. And I think data would be needed since top speed can also improve your rate of turning.
Top speed makes you making bigger cycles which doesn't help to turn faster. As for real data - the only real use of faster engines I saw is running away (can't say it's not effective I guess it's really upto people if they want to fight or run - can't blame them for doing that).
A fast engine isn't just for running away. As I said in a previous post, it has a few good uses. One, you can use your high speed to break away and try to get another missile lock from range. This can be very effective if you're flying a ship with two or three missile tubes. Another use is that in large scale PvP battles, rather then try to lock into a dog-fight with a single enemy, you instead criss-cross through the battlefield making high-speed arching runs, while trying to score hits on enemies that are already locked in a turning match with one of your buddies. This can be effective if you're flying a missile boat, or if you're flying something with a shotgun-like fire pattern, like a Heavy X-wing. Even if you don't score any hits while making these runs, you'll often end up drawning a few enemies into trying to chase you each time, but since you're so much faster, you can boost out of range before they take you down. If you can end up distracting three or four enemies everytime you make a pass, that's three or four less ships that your teammate's have to keep off their backs. A fast engine is also usefull for situations when you need a scout. In the large scale PvP events we hold on Starsider, often times a lot of time is spent just trying to locate the enemy fleet. A scout with a fast Mark V engine can cover a lot of space very quickly. And finally, a fast engine can be usefull for running down enemy scouts before they have a chance to rejoin the rest of their fleet.
MasterSad wrote:
Alristico wrote:
you too are under the assumption that yp is much better for turning than top speed is.
this very well could be true but I've never seen any real data to back this up. And I think data would be needed since top speed can also improve your rate of turning.
Top speed makes you making bigger cycles which doesn't help to turn faster. As for real data - the only real use of faster engines I saw is running away (can't say it's not effective I guess it's really upto people if they want to fight or run - can't blame them for doing that).
Also, speed just gives you a lot of flexibility--if you suddenly need to go slower, just throttle down. But then you can kick it back up to full speed when you need that, too.
Halyn wrote:
YPR trumps top speed. Why?
You started out with a misconception. No matter how fast you're flying, you are gated by your YPR. An engine with 100 top speed and an engine with 80 top speed, both with 60 YPR are going to take the same amount of time to turn a full circle. However, because the guy at 100 is flying so much faster, his circle is going to be much larger than the guy flying with the 80 speed engine. Thus, in that case, the guy with the slower engine is probably better off if it's a 1v1 dogfight situation.
Your top speed does not directly effect the time it takes to turn. It affects the radius of your turning circle, making it larger.
Again. Someone wording somthing better than I could. /applaud.
Anyway, people miss the point. They're all EQUALLY important variables. Always aim for the highest r,p,y possible. I found with my speed and r,p,y combination with my lvl 8 engine on my A-wing..I can do things I couldn't do with a lvl 6 engine. Also..even if you do have uber r,p,y...you don't always have to turn as steeply as possible. It is possible to over steer into an aggressors line of fire. However, you are fubared if you don't have enough r,p,y and are trying to turn at a higher rate.
However, people fail to realise that say if I'm much faster than my enemy...well to their perspective, my lead indicator is going to be much further ahead me so they have to turn more to compensate for that. All very well and good if they can hit it, but they also have to try and keep me in view so they know where I'm firing from. I know you never really get a lead indicator so far ahead that the enemy is off screen, but it is a helpful attribute I think. Combined with good r,p,y , you can really confuse your opponent.
/shrug as I said though, it all goes hand in hand. Speed only ever fully triumphs r,p,y when you're flying away from your opponent in a straight line. Even then..you'd get hitbefore you got out of range probably.
So in conclusion, you need both.
Message Edited by LeaphChausew on 08-15-2005 04:33 PM
Slysix wrote:
Have any of you guys ever tried to "goose" the throttle once you reach the "sweet" spot for turning?
That is, to bump speed to the max then bring it back down. Two things happen...your turn rate gets faster and you make your intertia drift a bit bigger.
Most of the time i'm now also using my throttle in combination with the regular ypr inputs to control my turn rate.
Yup, welcome to 'flying an A-wing correctly 101'. Ihave three presets for helping my ship 'shunt' into these turns as violently as possible. I know all ships are capable of this but the A-wing is the ship I notice on it the most. I should probably say welcome to 'flying any ship correctly 101' but I'm spectacularly biased at times
Alristico wrote:
pilots say this because they would rather have their ship turn quicker than be able to go real fast in a straight line. But how many understand that top speed actually improves yaw and pitch because it increases the speed at which you can make your tightest turn.
- an engine with high yaw-pitch will be able to make tighterturns.
- an engine with high speed will be able to make faster turns
Both decrease the time it takes to make a complete turn.
But at which point does yp matter more and at which point does top speed matter more? Anyone have any hard data?
That is, to bump speed to the max then bring it back down. Two things happen...your turn rate gets faster and you make your intertia drift a bit bigger.
Most of the time i'm now also using my throttle in combination with the regular ypr inputs to control my turn rate.