Pilot Archive
Thread: Yaw & Pitch are more important than top speed!..... or are they?
Washell
Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:15 pm
#14
Hard figures: Engine with PYR 70. I can turn 70 degrees/second.You, anengine experimented for top speedwith PYR 60, turning 60 degrees/second. Tighter turn, you can't target me, I have10 degrees/second playing room to target you.
NPC's turn slow, top speed will do fine. In a PvP fight vs a player with better PYR 20 points more in speed isn't going to save you.
Message Edited by Washell on 08-15-2005 04:21 AM
werehere
Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:28 pm
#15
soo your saying that ypr is degree a second in which you turn so the faster the speed you want to make the circle in you also have to have a higher ypr to bank that speed from making a a largercircle so basicly its not ypr or speed bt the speed and the ypr you have that make the oval . IF i get you right
gaarawarr
Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:41 pm
#16
you are only thinking of time to complete a turn, don't forget about distance traveled while turning. if you take two engines, one for high YPR and the other for high speed, both take the same amount of time to complete a turn but the YPR engine will take about half the distance to do the same turn.
in PvE this doesn't make much of a difference, in PvP if the other pilot can stay inside your turning radius you'll never line up a shot. if you joust them you pretty much have to get them on the first pass or you'll end up with them less then 300m behind you, it only takes a couple hits to disable/destroy any ship in PvP and since you can't get inside thier turning radius or put enough distance fast enough you stand a much greater chance of losing. also, they would only have to make about a 200 degree turn to line up a shot, with a lower YPR engine it would take 230+ degrees to line up a shot because you traveled alot more distance while turning.
Halyn
Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:41 pm
#17
Right! Both YPR and speed are important. Though a few pilots have been debating recently whether it's better to have high speed or mediocre speed...I'm among those who hasn't been able to convince myself either way.
"--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC
werehere
Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:56 pm
#18
A object in rest tends to stay in rest .A object in motion tends to stay in motion .
-Sir Issac Newton
QUestion if we only have engines in the back how do we slow down and frther how do the ships with only one engine turn ? they cant
ANd wouldnt fireing off bossters at 90 degrees to ship fire to point in oppisite direction be just as fas t as turning .
psikobunny
Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:56 pm
#19
let's use this example. Two engines with the same top speed, and 20 points difference in YPR. The ship with better YPR will be able to make it's full turn within a much smaller circle, thus travelling less distance, thus making the complete circle more quickly. A vaksai with a crafted 119 speed engine may beat me by 20 points of speed, but he can't do full speed loops withing the distance between the forks of a space station. I will win the battle against the faster engine, because while he may move througha circle at a higher speed, im still rotating through my axes of motion faster than him, thuse the nose of my ship is ahead of his path of travel, this my bolts pass through the space he is attempting to occupy
Halyn
Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:12 pm
#20
We're not dealing with true physics here. We're using pseudophysics that have some similarities with reality.
werehere wrote:
A object in rest tends to stay in rest .A object in motion tends to stay in motion .
-Sir Issac Newton
QUestion if we only have engines in the back how do we slow down and frther how do the ships with only one engine turn ? they cant
ANd wouldnt fireing off bossters at 90 degrees to ship fire to point in oppisite direction be just as fas t as turning .
Ashtirael
Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:13 pm
#21
Yes. Speed is not as important in a close up battle. No chance. That turn rate is a killer.
Only way to justify speed is by playing tag. Hit and run.
A faster engine, slose up, with same ypr, yes, its better. But less ypr with better speed, no. Your turning arc is toobig to stay in that game.
evil_SOCCERMOM
Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:14 pm
#22
werehere wrote:A object in rest tends to stay in rest .A object in motion tends to stay in motion .
-Sir Issac Newton
QUestion if we only have engines in the back how do we slow down and frther how do the ships with only one engine turn ? they cant
ANd wouldnt fireing off bossters at 90 degrees to ship fire to point in oppisite direction be just as fas t as turning .
It has long since been established that our game ways not made to follow our laws of physics. A ship with only only one engine could turn if it had a method to redirect the thrust but, for the sake of arguement I fly with the assumption that there are "thrusters" embedded in the ships chassis that feed off the main engine. Again this is all my fictious invention to justify my ships handling but, if those thruster were controlled by a complicated computer program they could provide the effect of atmospheric flight but gently performing turns as opposed to spinnign me on my axis and they could fire automatically to simulate decceleration (though ships would decelerate in space without them, eventually). Why you would go through the trouble is beyond me but, to say that our flying physics are impossible is wrong. They would just be useless and difficult to implement.
Oh and to be on topic, a high YPR engine will turn faster then a low one. The faster a ship goes only increases its turning circle radis not speed it around the turn.
Message Edited by evil_SOCCERMOM on 08-14-2005 08:15 PM
Alristico
Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:51 pm
#23
I think im beggining to understand better. The ypr # is measured in degree's/sec. So taking just this into account, ypr is what helps you make tighter turns and top speed will only help you go faster but not turn faster becausethe faster you go the wider your circle will be when turning. However, acceleration and deceleration are a factor too. And since top speed influences acc/dec this would mean that top speed does infact help you turn a circle fasterin a way thatyp does not but only when acc/dec are being utilized. And I would think acc/dec are very important during a close pvp battle. Is this true?
jimbrown
Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:54 pm
#24
Alristico wrote:
GileHarleen wrote:
Depends what you're out for. PvE I always go with speed engines. PvP you want high yaw/pitch, I think. But I never PvP so I don't know exactly.
I know, this is what everybody keeps saying, but high top speed also decreases the time that it takes to make a turn, just in a different way than yaw and pitch.
maybe. but if your top speed is higher, than the circle is going to be LARGER. so even though you turn it faster, its a larger circle, which means your enemy has more room to get on your tail and fire.
evil_SOCCERMOM
Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:29 pm
#25
Alristico wrote:
I think im beggining to understand better. The ypr # is measured in degree's/sec. So taking just this into account, ypr is what helps you make tighter turns and top speed will only help you go faster but not turn faster becausethe faster you go the wider your circle will be when turning. However, acceleration and deceleration are a factor too. And since top speed influences acc/dec this would mean that top speed does infact help you turn a circle fasterin a way thatyp does not but only when acc/dec are being utilized. And I would think acc/dec are very important during a close pvp battle. Is this true?
I'm 99% sure acceleration is determined by chassis not engine.
gaarawarr
Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:39 pm
#26
Alristico wrote:
And I would think acc/dec are very important during a close pvp battle. Is this true?
this is entirely dependant on the chassis you fly. something like a A-Wing, JSF or belbullab-22 are at thieroptimal turning speed at 80-90% throttle so acc/dec modifiers don't mean anything. in an x-wing or krayt you are at 60-70% throttle so acc/dec becomes alot more useful. also, it depends on the pilot. some will cut thier speed lower while others will even hit boosters, just have to find what works for you.