Pilot Archive

Thread: why are Star Destroyers so easy to kill?

ClevtonRyles
Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:20 am
#27


The ISD is supposed to have: 60 turbolasers, 60 ion cannons, 10 tractor beam projectors


A StarFighter compliment ot: 48 TIE fighters, 12 TIE interceptors, and 12 TIE bombers


That does not count the various support craft, shuttles, landing craft, and the squadron of Assualt Gunboats - which really should be added to the game - or the advanced fighters carried on some Destroyers.




Colonel Clevton "The Clap" Ryles
Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Drunken Bar Brawler Extraordinaire
"I didn't know how many of em it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were gunna use..."
I am Jack's ignored profession.
KIA 26 AUGUST 2005 by Dev Jeedai Lovin'
KiwiKnutten
Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:40 am
#28

Well they could increse the HP of the ISD components, kinda like the Bridge. That would meanit would take longer to take it downwhich in turn makes it more likely for a enemy player to come to DS.It also makes all the awingpilotsnot so powerfull against the ISD it will take a fewmore flybysbefore you can take a component down, that encurages for PvPers to bring help. In turn the enemy PvPersneeds to gather friends too.



Remeber. you lived in a time of kiwi.
darkk1138
Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:54 pm
#29

Good idea. In best case a dialog popup. Of course it would repeat popping up after each travel.

But seriously, the idea isn't too bad, given the targets are a bit more durable.



--

Darkk (et alts)

[ CombatLevelsand QuestXPCaps | My IdeasforSWG | UI/Targeting proposal ]

Chapter 5 needs thongs!
ClevtonRyles
Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:48 pm
#30

'... has valiantly defended an Imperial Star Destroyer.'


'... has couragously destroyed an Imperial Star Destroyer.'





Colonel Clevton "The Clap" Ryles
Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Drunken Bar Brawler Extraordinaire
"I didn't know how many of em it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were gunna use..."
I am Jack's ignored profession.
KIA 26 AUGUST 2005 by Dev Jeedai Lovin'
GileHarleen
Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:08 pm
#31

Word of advice: do not refer to the movies when trying to balance the ships. Almost every regular PvPer on our server is a Jedi. Nuff said. The only time canon comes into play is when smacking around Imperials. Species prejudice, mundane ships with no customization, letting our NPC leaders kill us (cool, but still..). Any logical being can realize that anything the size of a Star Destroyer cannot be taken down by a single starfighter, regardless if they have the Force, the Shwartz, or a Tony Robbins tape playing.


That being said, there's no justification for the current state of the Star Destroyer. It's immobile, it's weak, and it has no bottom coverage. Those crazy flipping mission Rebel gunboats are much worse than anything the Star Destroyer can dish out, and Rebel Station (when it's working) is at least a 1-2 death affair. A missle system, fighter escort, and/or regenerating parts is the best way to go. Remember the TIE Fighter/X-Wing series of games? The moment you locked on a capital ship, you'd be getting 2 missle locks on you. Unless you had backup, or a fully loaded missle boat or TIE Defender, you could kiss your chassis goodbye. And I think that's something to think about doing.



Gaile Harleen


Ace Pilot - Master Rifleman - Master Shipwright


Because self-reliance is sexy.


And it's not our fault - it's just your own new suicide.

ClevtonRyles
Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:15 pm
#32

only refer to the movie specs to make a point I hate the way the Jedi plague the servers...


I also miss XvT, and the ability to blow up missiles with a well placed shot...





Colonel Clevton "The Clap" Ryles
Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Drunken Bar Brawler Extraordinaire
"I didn't know how many of em it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were gunna use..."
I am Jack's ignored profession.
KIA 26 AUGUST 2005 by Dev Jeedai Lovin'
Yoshiyuki
Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:39 pm
#33






ClevtonRyles wrote:

only refer to the movie specs to make a point I hate the way the Jedi plague the servers...


I also miss XvT, and the ability to blow up missiles with a well placed shot...








And the ability to dumb fire missles as needed. I rarely ever locked on because of chaffs flares or decoy beams but I still splashed the bandet.

Give me a Decked out A wing with real conucssion missles and you will not live to tell about the encounter. Mag pulse missles were also nice for taking out captial ships
SeniorSpanky
Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:46 pm
#34


personally, i love pvp the way it works now, when i can find someone i can dogfight against. i love my a wing with its comparatively weak weapon and shieldsbut fantastic manuverability. it really gets the adrenalin going when i know that i'm dead in 2 shots from a krayt or a firespray or an opressor, and that my only hope is my skills as a pilot and some clever tactical manuvers.


however, i see your point. i will admit (though not bragging) that i am probably a much better pilot than most other masters, due to the form of space combat. the reason i love it so much though, is because in space it doesn't matter how long you've been playing or what kind of uber weapons you have bought for millions of credits or how much grinding you've done, it all comes down to personal skill. if you suck in pvp in space, it's because you, well, suck. yet, it'd be worth giving up the 2 shot realistic kills in order to have more players participate in massive deep space battles similar to the battle of endor, or even live events in space... ohhh man, it'd be pretty sweet to have 3 isds show up over corellia against afew vettesand a mon cal cruiser.



but i do see some problems with story consistency when it comes to the arc 170 and jsf. if jedi are outlawed by the empire, then why give imperial pilots a jedi weapon? and why do the rebels get a galactic republic/empire ship? my original thought was that the jsf was the a wing for the imps, and that the arc was a rebel aggressor, but now i'm not sure... i'd be cool with only imps getting the jsf if i could get some more mass on my a wing.




Irebobacca
Elder Bounty Hunter/
Walking Carpet

darkk1138
Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:13 pm
#35

Those games were great indeed. IMO in any means except graphics superior to JTL. If offered (SP) well-placed mission/duty plots as well as a huge variety of ships.



Sure, I won't neglect the fact that the AI and concept had to evolve a bit from X-Wing to XvT and XWA. Still, even in the both oldest games, most of the missions were designed good enough to cover any design flaws.

For example in X-Wing, if I didn't use the blind spot of a Corellian Corvette behind the engines, I'd face 5 of them at once and the mission would eventually fail. I never did a thing just because I was too lazy to do it in a proper way. (Exception might be the missile boat, as in some of the missions the opposition was not scaled so well.)

In JTL, when I exploit blind spots of a gunboat or this distance thingy, when I use bstrike for a corvette (never did ) or when I use missiles for the subparts because I'm too lazy again to laser them, I feel like a cheater.


While I wish --especially because in LucasArts there should be a lot of knowledge regarding this-- that JTL was a bit closer to those games, I of course realize that giving such a simulation RPG character is a hard thing which might not fit with it, also it is surely not an easy task to do such a game likewise for an MMO environment instead of a limited network environment or single player.



--

Darkk (et alts)

[ CombatLevelsand QuestXPCaps | My IdeasforSWG | UI/Targeting proposal ]

Chapter 5 needs thongs!
quadpers0n
Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:34 pm
#36


there is no way to make the ISD unsoloable. this is a twitch game and players will always overcome if given the slightest oppertunity. tomo's post at the beginning of this thread was dead on, and probably one of the only good ideas to actually make the ISD difficult while not forcing players into some kind of absurdity.


it's worth noting however that you can't solo the ISD on gorath during certain times of the day.


why? because it has a fighter escort. the way it was meant to. you want to have an unsoloable ISD? give incentive to players to PVP, in deep space particularly, above and beyond what they currently have. faction incentive. ranking incentive. ladder and kill boards.


and continue not to coddle those who want "more dogfighting". there's plenty of dogfighting out there now, the only people who fail to realize this are the people who don't pvp. longer fights and more joystick rolling does not equal dogfighting and if you are so concerned with your fights lasting longer, well you can put a level 5 gun on your ship and make the fights last longer. if you are preaching damage mitigation and don't do this already, all you are doing is complaining about being shot.



edit: oh you could also let players man the guns. but i would think that would be alot more coding overhead than pvp incentives.

Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-19-2005 07:36 PM



-meeuki


lumpini
ClevtonRyles
Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:08 pm
#37

lowering the overall damage caused by me, by lowering my weapons, puts me at a disadvantage because other people would not

Also, I think the AI was better in the XvT series in some ways... mainly, that I'd actually end up going head to head with the enemy. I also miss the old X-wing mission style... imho, thats how missions should be in JTL. Not the same types of repetative escort missions, or 'go here and kill this spawn of 4 waves.'

Something more immersive, and more of a story line.

But then again... that would be content, and it would have taken them some time to do right.

Right... I'll stop the mini rant before this gets more off topic.



Colonel Clevton "The Clap" Ryles
Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Drunken Bar Brawler Extraordinaire
"I didn't know how many of em it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were gunna use..."
I am Jack's ignored profession.
KIA 26 AUGUST 2005 by Dev Jeedai Lovin'
ImpCaptainNelin
Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:28 pm
#38

The answer is simple, the isd has 40 heavy turbolaser batteries and 80 normal batteries. SOE never would have put that in becasuethink about how many people would hate that compared to having them being toeasy....



Darren Darkrott- Cancelled
Darrenn Darkrott- Cancelled
If you cant figure out why... look back on a year ago.
RpTheHotrod
Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 am
#39




How about some sort of frequency (announcement) being sent via chat boxto all master pilots when their "objective" is being attacked? That way, each side knows when their objective is being attacked and are able to respond by hypering to their Deep Space Station and going to defend?


At the moment, you really have no idea when it's under attack...at least I don't think so.


Of coarse, they'd have to add some incentive to actually defend it.....




I COMPLETELY agree that the components should have more hitpoints. It only took 1 gun-run for each component except the bridge for my friend and I (2 gun-runs at the bridge to blow it up).

Message Edited by RpTheHotrod on 06-19-2005 12:50 PM

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