Pilot Archive

Thread: why are Star Destroyers so easy to kill?

GileHarleen
Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:53 pm
#14

*Something* needs to be done with it, if in the least it regenerates. This has gone too far for too long when people have tallies in the hundreds.



Gaile Harleen


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Electro5
Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:54 pm
#15

Yes, but it was virtually defenseless, not completely built, and the pilot had to kamikaze to do it (clearly, ramming an entire ship into the bridge, which then explodes, is a bit more powerful than laser fire).


Being able to solo any capitol class ship is stupid, corvettes included. Especially since Corvettes are made to mainly fight Fighter class starships, not other capitol ships. An ISD isn't mean to fight starfighters, but it should still be able to do well against a single target, or have huge escorts to protect it. They can't possibly be cheap, you'd think the empire would be more willing to defend them.


But fix the lag from the thing first, before you start worrying about how pathetically easy it is. I wouldn't be suprised if that's half the reason it is so easy.






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Yoshiyuki
Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:20 pm
#16

The Super Star Destory was a finished model. This was Vader's command ship. Your thinking of the Death Star II
Knightcrest
Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:54 pm
#17

The reason ISD's are so easy to blow up is because players are meant to be the majority of the defense in fighters. Remeber back when they had that as the load screen of people soloing it? Yeah they wanted to inspire you to not let rebels nuke the ISD every few minutes. Get out and defend it.



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David665
Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:53 pm
#18

What does one get for popping the ISD?
admiraljz
Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:15 pm
#19






David665 wrote:
What does one get for popping the ISD?






Approximately 10k XP, 500 FP, and 15k credits.


On a side note, we had some Imperial PC pilots giving us hell while working the ISD over this afternoon. Got to be kinda frantic running up the hull of the ISD on an attack run, only to have to peel off, roll out of the fire, and try to shake a PC ship bearing down on you.


A little bit more damage mitigation in space might get more people out there PvPing. 2-3 hit kills, while realistic, can happen incredibly fast and before you have time to react. Doesn't bother me, personally, but I know it's a reason a lot of people aren't up there PvPing.






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JediNg
Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:25 am
#20






admiraljz wrote:





David665 wrote:
What does one get for popping the ISD?






Approximately 10k XP, 500 FP, and 15k credits.


On a side note, we had some Imperial PC pilots giving us hell while working the ISD over this afternoon. Got to be kinda frantic running up the hull of the ISD on an attack run, only to have to peel off, roll out of the fire, and try to shake a PC ship bearing down on you.


A little bit more damage mitigation in space might get more people out there PvPing. 2-3 hit kills, while realistic, can happen incredibly fast and before you have time to react. Doesn't bother me, personally, but I know it's a reason a lot of people aren't up there PvPing.








It's a shame.



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Oikaleek
Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:30 am
#21


The fighter escorts that are supposedto spawn for the ISD haven't been spawning the last 4 times i've attacked it. They do make it significantly more difficult to kill. Toss in a couple players to help and it becomes a real challenge.


Only being a master pilot now for about 2 weeks, I can say this:


Pvp in space is extremely disappointing. I could tolerate a two shot kill from a Jedi starfighter when I am in a B-Wing with 2k shields if I could respawn INSIDE deep space and not take any damage to the chassis.


If the dev's were more concerned with FUN than they are with making up enough penalties to prevent any kind of fun, then deep space would have been Quake in space. You spawn, you kill , you die, you respawn, you kill, you die, you respawn. As it stands now, I wont be going to deep space any more for one reason and one reason only. The Jedi starfighter. I can't fly one because I am not imperial, and I have no ship that can hang with one to kill it except perhaps my a-wing.


What exactly were they thinking when they made the predecessor's to the TIE fighters and X-wing (the actis and arc-170) vastly superiorto the fighters that replaced them. Exactly how much sense does this make?


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Yoshiyuki
Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:10 am
#22






Oikaleek wrote:

What exactly were they thinking when they made the predecessor's to the TIE fighters and X-wing (the actis and arc-170) vastly superiorto the fighters that replaced them. Exactly how much sense does this make?







It makes perfect sence. Any thing jedi will always be better then non jedi stuff. I'm sure if they ever release a KOTR expansion pack the 10,000 year old jedi quest stuff will still be vastly UBER to any current era tech. It is a known fact that the DEVs are totally bias towards the jedi and everyone else can suck it up or quit. But they know you won't quit because you will grind out jedi and do the jedi quests which means @ least a 22 week grind to finish the FS quest + your jedi training grind(which they know you will do and that takes months, throw in the "evil" BH that kills low levle jedi to create some form of population control and you have to grind longer. Maybe that is why the devs "weakend" the novice jedi and make master jedi ubers). which means uber money in thier pockets.


Maybe once the jedi learn they are nothing more then a mere pawn for extortion we will actually get some ballance in this game.




PaladinX333
Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:02 am
#23







A little bit more damage mitigation in space might get more people out there PvPing. 2-3 hit kills, while realistic, can happen incredibly fast and before you have time to react. Doesn't bother me, personally, but I know it's a reason a lot of people aren't up there PvPing.







You are 100% correct. It just doesn't sound like it would be any fun.I never cared for "Insta-Gib" matches in Quake or Unreal tournament either. I want to dogfight for a bit, not be one-shotted in the first 5 seconds of combat.
VTmoon
Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:13 am
#24

yeha man it's sucks, hehe.




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admiraljz
Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:21 am
#25






PaladinX333 wrote:







A little bit more damage mitigation in space might get more people out there PvPing. 2-3 hit kills, while realistic, can happen incredibly fast and before you have time to react. Doesn't bother me, personally, but I know it's a reason a lot of people aren't up there PvPing.







You are 100% correct. It just doesn't sound like it would be any fun.I never cared for "Insta-Gib" matches in Quake or Unreal tournament either. I want to dogfight for a bit, not be one-shotted in the first 5 seconds of combat.






Well, on one hand, if you're buzzing around Deep Space with your pilot helmet up the rear of your jumpsuit, there's a pretty good chance you're going to be blindsided by a one or two hit kill. But for me personally, that makes the actual dogfight much, much more hectic and tactical than ground PvP could ever be. The way PvP works in space right now, 75% or more of your tactics are evasion. You're desperate to NOT get hit, and are thinking of defense before you're thinking about offense. Ships twist and turn and pitch and roll, jockeying for position to get those one or two shots off to win the fight. It might be 10 minutes worth of maneuvering to win or lose a fight in two shots. It's actually quite thrilling, but it's mostly applicable to fairly talented pilots (of which I am not, but I've never been one to blame the other guy for my shortcomings).


I don't mean that first line as a flame, but as an observation. If you're in a PvP zone in space (or declared overt), you have to be constantly tabbing your "target nearest enemy player" button, and when there's one in range, NEVER flying in a straight line. It's actually a pretty good system for space PvP, but it doesn't appeal so much to the average player, who does tend to fly in a straight line and doesn't have as good a grasp on 3-dimensional evasive maneuvering as the aces who have been playing flight sims since they were 3.


That's why I think there should be a LITTLE more mitigation added, but not much. Reducing the PvP mitigation on the ground in the CU has sped up ground PvP, in most cases, considerably. A balance between the two in space would be appropriate for a larger number of players, I think.


As for comments about not being able to compete with a JSF in PvP, I have vaporized several (as well as Grievous Starfighters) in my basic 100k mass X-Wing. We've destroyed several TIE varients in our Nova Cruiser. In space, nothing is impossible.






Aucka - Eromi - Ecaro
Widowmakers
Test Center
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darkk1138
Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:41 am
#26

A problem I see which has to do with this is that by freely selectable components you can tweak your ship as much as you want. It adds RPG characteristics to a twitch based game, also running for components, having them REd, adds some variety and gives shipwrights business.

But the way it is now, it kills the in-space variety as well as any considerations of roles. As the game as it is barely forces the pilot into trade-offs or considerations about which ship to take according to a certain assignment like "you're responsible to knock off the escort" or "you'll deal with the big one".

Example: Pilot 2323, maybe even lower, have yet to try, is well sufficient to solo the Kessel vette. Take a nub fighter heavy variant, give it a level 7 gun, a level 7 shield and a level 7 engine, and you have all you need. No bstrike and no missiles and no I-was-previously-master-exploit are necessary to do this.

This is actually a task for bomber class vessels, isn't it? But they royally suck against the two largest ships we know, as they're hit just too easy. The 600 extra shield HP you get by using your level 8 reward shield doesn't compensate enough for the size of your bomber class ship. Ironically, a ship like the Rihk and the Krayt are perfect for AI starfighters, because of their firepower, although they're supposed to be too sluggish to make a difference in dogfight.

Solution? One could be to maybe limit components level-wise per ship. For example, an A-Wing could just not be equipped with heavy warheads, heavy shields and heavy guns. A JSF could not even get shields at all, and has to rely on not being hit much at all, but due to its size and maneuverability it is actually not hit much at all. In return, let larger vessels be clearly more sluggish, so they have a really hard time if they face superiority or interceptor vessels. Any incarnations of EO wouldn't buy a bomber class vessel too much. But, their offense is strong enough to seriously damage larger ship parts, and their defense is strong enough to give them time to approach, shoot, and retreat. Rear guns on a Krayt, due to the heavy loadout the pilot already has, would be limited to a really light variant, so that smaller starfighters keep an edge over it. And so on..



And yes, a star destroyer supposed to have a huge number of starfighters just sitting there watching being destroyed, that's quite ridiculous. But I think at least that was recently fixed or...?



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