Pilot Archive

Thread: PvP damage output and weapon overload

Areli
Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:49 am
#27

People insisting it's fine as-is are blinding themselves to the issue at hand. Figuring out how it should work is pretty simple; here's my take:

-light fighters take 2, maybe 3 hits [presumably from a ship mounting at least two 2000dmg blasters], but are frigging hard to hit (as we can all observe by fighting NPC awings, scyk, kihraxzand interceptors). They equip one medium gun and maybea light warhead, and harry the enemy (frigging irritating things they are)


-medium fighters take 3-4 hits, carry a warhead (probably a proton torpedo) and a pair of guns. Versatile and good to have around because they can dogfight or make bombing runs


-heavy fighers and bombers take 4-5 hits (enough that they can get hit, pull away, and not be worried), and carry either a lot of projectile guns and a decent warhead (fighters) or a pair of good guns and a payload of fiery death.


-MP ships take a LOT of hits so that they can be the target of bombing runs, equip turret-mounted blasters that do a fair crop of damage (since it's pretty hard to hit with a turret), have warheads... in essence, one should be at least as deadly as a flight of fighters, since it's got the same crew.


Right now, the only ships worth flying are light, because ALL ships have the light-ship characteristics minus the maneuvrability advantage. My personal opinion is that either level 9/10 certs should be a darn sight better and about twice as heavy, or MP ships should be able to equip multiple layers of shields, armour, multiple reactors, etc. I'm more in favour of the first option, because it makes more room for the fun alternative of focusing a master/tier4 heavy fighter on aspecific role by giving it a cruiser-grade piece of equipment. It would be pretty fun to have a near-indestructible rihkxyrk with a tier 10 shield that weighed 150k of the available 190. Obviously the rest of your equipment would be stinted as a result, but we'd see a lot more weird and interesting heavy ship combinations based on play style.


The one-hit-kill needn't be eliminated completely, especially for light fighters, but it makes no sense for that to apply to everything. I don't think PvP damage reduction is the way to go about this -at all-, since light fighters will remain just as much better than the heavy as they are right now. It's not the nature of PvP that's confused, it's the balance.



Current main character: Saersha, Privateer and Jack-of-all-Trades (Flurry)
1st_Viduus
Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:50 am
#28

Nightgun,


I agree with that 100% - butthere's no "shaft" here.


A gun graded for a light craft would have min-max possible mass, cap use, et cetera. Higher performance would mean greater demand somewhere else. At extreme levels, let's say, a light gun would haveenergy use around 1200, and damage around 800, a 2:3 ratio, which is rather poor performance. At the other extreme you would have more like a 900energy use, but an 1800 damage max, giving it a 2:1 energy ratio. MUCH better, don't you think? Include better efficiencies as part of the formula,maintain similar masses for these items, and you have a workingsystem for Tiers.
Factor in now that at higher tiers, fighters also become 'more advanced', and can fit 2 turrets or even 3, you start to see the same damages we are seeing now, or very close, if slightly reduced.


The same holds true for Medium classes - add a reasonable amount of mass to the weaps, and a reasonable performance as well.... make mediums take min-max 1200-1500 energy for 1000-2500 damage... yes, they're doing more damage than the mediums, but given that it's a heavier ship, and sacrificing maneuverability, chances are you won't land as many hits.

The same can be applied to all the systems and components in the game atm - Engine -- how can the same engine that powers my dinky little advanced push a 5 MILLION kg ship at only a 20% performance loss? Impossible.

As you say, by mass... sure... to a small degree... but they need to be scaled to the ship Type and Size first, with mass increases proportionate to requirements.


With a system like this, things like "25% damage reduction for PvP" would be completely unnecessary, for the simple reason that the Class of ship would dictate max damage output, max defenses, et cetera. With a little tweaking to how damage is handled in MP ships, and to the max allowances, the separation of the MASS system from the TIER system, and implementing Tier and Class instead, would make everyone's life in space a lot easier... and strongly encourage groups of MP-bombers-fighters.

PvP would be a BLAST....



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Rowgue
Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:12 am
#29

You also have to keep something else in mind when comparing the speed of a light fighter and a heavy fighter with the same engine. Not only does that heavy fighter take a hit to the max speed, acceleration, and YPR stats just for putting it on that heavy ship, but the heavy ships also have a much lower effective combat speed. The pure max speed stat is only really useful if he is running away, and if you are in a faster more maneuverable ship there is no way he should be able to.


The only real place the engine speed is unbalancing is in PvE as the AI is too stupid to realize they are in a faster more nimble ship, and don't fly as such.
Eaca
Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:59 am
#30






Kinot33 wrote:

Couple of things.


Reactor: 35K

Engine: 40K

Shield: 20K

Front Armor: 10K

Back Armor: 10K

Booster:20K

Capacitor: 15K

Droid Interface:10K

Weapon:10K

Ordinance: 10K

Countermeasures: 10K


Total Mass To Play With: 190K

Average Mass of this Ship Type: 62-65K 170-190k


Anyways, there is my idea. Fire at will folks and we'll see how she stands.






Did a slight correction for you. I mean, if I got 10k for both my armor slots, why would I put anything but armor that's got as many armor HP in each slot, maximizing that slot. I got 20k mass set aside for a booster? Guess I'll drop a level 8 RE'd one in there. 40k mass for an engine? I'll drop an L10 monster in there, heck thats about 2/3's just the current mass. You can fit a L9 reactor in 35k mass, and why wouldn't you? Honestly, what on earth makes you think 62-65k would be average on an a-wing under your system? If all you have to worry about is mass max for a given component, as it doesn't affect the rest of the ship in any way, tell me why you wouldn't just max out each and every component for that mass level?
Geevo
Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:55 am
#31

I think he was saying what the A-Wing mass is currently.



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psikobunny
Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:03 am
#32

Eaca, the point of the proposal was not to change the current max mass of any spaceframes, just to limit the masses of each type of component in different ways, yet allow room for customization.


The idea has merit, however there are general and specific issues I have with it.

First, I think itwon't work well with the current inconsistencies in level/mass/effect when it comes to the current randomized loot.

Second, only 10k mass for a weapon? Part of the design intent of an interceptor type vessel is to deliver significant firepower quickly. Space for defense is sacrificed for the sake of maneuverabilty and speed, but firepower isn't sacrificed any more than need be. My best RE'd level6 guns come in at 9.9k mass. I've never seen a crafted level7 gun below 12k mass.The reward gun granted inthe same tier as the Awing certification would never ever fit in it under these guidelines. Yes, I am aware that in current PvP almost any gun works, and that the Awing is become a mainly PvP vessel, but no system implemented can blatantly force a particular ship type into a "PvP only" role. Could an Awing under this new system still handle the foes in the tier in which the cert was granted? No, not in a timely fashion.



Gilack Mehoipou [Bloodfin]


Quintuple Master- Marksman/Squad Leader/Rifleman/Vortex Pilot/Politician


Made it before all hell broke loose.



ElohimSikks
Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:46 am
#33

I am nearly always overt and looking for overt Alliance fliers to fight with, but never find them.


Note to rebels everywhere: go overt and come see me. I've usually got at least 4 or more members of my squadron with me, so bring friends. I bought a rubber stamp of an Alliance X-Wing fighter, and have only had a chance to stamp it 3 times on my Kihraxz fuselage (3 confirmed PvP kills so far, and one was kinda....*cough*...cheap).Please give me a chance to use my stamp again!


Spenndo Quick

Administrator of Colonia

Ace RSF Pilot in the Flying Circus of Colonia (Naboo)

<<FC1-PURSUIT -- Kihraxz light fighter -- 40k mass is *way* too much!>>


"Have you ever flown a light Blacksun fighter with a 92.2 speed reward engine crammed into it? Hang on, kid."




Spenndo Quick
Administrator of Colonia
Master Pilot in the Colonian Flying Circus
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