Pilot Archive

Thread: missiles in PvP, good or bad?

Shazbat
Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:40 am
#14

Yanus- Almost...


I prefer lvl 1 armor with shields of 2100-2555 (Starmap RE or Reward shield RE). If the engine has turns above 74 (84 in larger ships), TS above 105, and you're packing a pre-nerf lvl 1 DI, and2 Borstels (or any lvl 8 Reward Gun RE'd). I'd say that's an A Ship. Needless to say, that's tough to squeeze into a 90k mass Actis. Mine's got 1 borstel and a lvl 7 Kashyyyk Ion Pulse reward gun RE'd (3800s and 3100s respectively), a 74 turn 108 TS engine (Starmap reward RE'd 23,400 mass). Currently using a 2100 Starmap Shield (wishing I could put the 2555 reward gun back in). Otherwise, I'm running everything mentioned above.


Compare your setup of 1700 shields and 800 armor to mine of 2555 shields and (even as low as) 100 armor. Mine is still protecting better, and I can shunt back damage done to my shield, while you're forced to repair armor (or at least leave DS). Even though my current Actis setup of 2100s shields and 160 armor (about 2300 front and rear) doesn't match your 2500, I think that 200 extra protection is a worthwile sacrifice for the extra mass it affords me. You might say the same about your engine. Low mass, but these days, it's a speed sacrifice.


It's a tough call, but I think that 800 armor is a lot of mass for a PvP ship (assuming we're talking about PvP). If we're not, than 2555 shields and 1000+ armor is ideal.


I have yet to find a JSF with a cargo hold. hahaha.


While those pre-nerf engines ruled back in the day, I've long since forgone mine for 108 TS 74 turns. In a JSF with a lvl 1 Booster, I get about 1460 speed (EO3). In my Crimson TIE, I can break 1660 (EO3 and same booster). Either of those speeds with 74 turns makes for a pretty mean ship.


Now if only I could put my 5k+ guns into my JSF... /drool


It remains a work in progress.



Pacify. Dominate. Annihilate.


INQ Admiral Shazbat- Imperial Inquisition Ace, Elder Master Jedi
Snazbat- Master Spy, Freelance Ace~~ Noctivagous- Master Shipwright, Rebel Ace

Visit The Admiral's Vice Cantina at -1025 6050, Antares, Naboo

Founder, Inquisition Navy, LONG LIVE THE PILOT
Captain: VT-49 The Pride of Antares
C&C Sick Bay Rec Room Bridge

Kirkmeister
Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:09 am
#15

Getting off track a bit, but it's relavent here from what we have discussed. I can, and do take 2 hits from missiles before they get through to my components with the armour I carry. I was discussing this with a guildie shippy last night. I have had many occasions where the armour has saved my bacon. They can punch my shields, but the armour soaks up a blaster no problem, it's missiles that cause the problems.


I find if I target reactor I can usually stop them with one missile, if i get a good hit on them, otherwise it means 2 hits with a blaster.





Yanus Ulriksen-Guild-Leader-LRDP
Master Bounty Hunter
Lakeshire-Talus
Shazbat
Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:15 am
#16

Bawarr, that's precisely what I thought until I started taking hits that (for example) went through my front shields but only half of my front armor. It may seem a miniscule addition, but it's adding a layer of protection, albeit smal, that's protecting my components and using 1000 mass for 2 pieces. Also, to an opponent, lvl 1 armor looks JUST like lvl 10 armor when it's at 100%. I'd prefer to use 1000 mass to even have the appearance of protection, rather than the dreaded Armor: N/A I see on opponents who didn't bother to squeeze any in at all. With those guys, I KNOW I only need 1 hit.


There's also thechance that an enemy's shot goes through my rear shield and my rear (lvl 1) armor, but does NO damage to my components. That's happened quite a few times, and I'm forced to wonder what would have happened if I'd had no armor at all. I'd probably be dead in the water.


Of course, you're right that this low level of armor is, at best, an afterthought, added at the end to fill up the remaining 1000 mass.


That's precisely what it is. Give me heavier shields any day. Those I can fix without leaving the fight, or the zone.


If an opponent gets through 2555 shields, she's usually already won. If she still believes she needs to breach my armor, I have time to shunt. with 430 mass 14.8 DI, I can usually get 2 good shunts in before I'm hit again. Like you said, you're looking to use up that 12k mass when you get a better engine. It sounds like your armor setup is at best, temporary. Before I RE'd my lvl 8, I had more armor too. I prefer harder to hit, as space pvp is a 1-3 hit game anyway.






Pacify. Dominate. Annihilate.


INQ Admiral Shazbat- Imperial Inquisition Ace, Elder Master Jedi
Snazbat- Master Spy, Freelance Ace~~ Noctivagous- Master Shipwright, Rebel Ace

Visit The Admiral's Vice Cantina at -1025 6050, Antares, Naboo

Founder, Inquisition Navy, LONG LIVE THE PILOT
Captain: VT-49 The Pride of Antares
C&C Sick Bay Rec Room Bridge

LeaphChausew
Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:31 am
#17

Missiles make me cry. However..they're legal and not really dishonourable. In fact..I take being missiled as flattery sometimes because it's like the enemy is saying "damn you're too hard to hit with guns".
I just realised I don't have ordnance on any of my ships currently, but I used to and I did occasionally use it but I never got the satisfaction thatI'd get if I had havehit them with guns.


In this game, there is nothing sweeter than the tinny/mixed with explosion sound that comes with hitting a target in pvp with lasers.


There is nothing more annoying though than tagging a glancing blow on your opponent and getting the fizzly shield flare and soundhowever..

Shazbat
Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:51 am
#18

Not to hijack the thread, but I was wondering what people thought abouyt /launchmissle


If you don't know about it, the command launches a phantom missle, without lock, at whatever player you have targeted. I'm not even sure it requires a launcher. It may. The targeted opponent gets the lock warning even vibrates when "hit" but there is no missle. You even see it on the screen, and it works from WAY outside of missle range.


One particular pilot on Intrepid, Ackfore, has used this on me (when I was alone vs. 5 of his pilots) as (what he called) a "tactic" to run me out of CMs, as if having 4 wingmen wasn't advantage enough. Set it to a macro, and depending on the /pause time, you can lag kill or annoy a guy to death. You can even sneak a real missle in there when he seems not to be chaffing. Fortunately (and as usual) he couldn't get me.


To me, this is almost as bad as load killing. There is absolutely no reason for this command to remain in game. I don't believe for a second that it's a "tactic." The lock warning should mean only 1 thing: There' a missle coming for ya, better chaff.


If the guy is chaffing too fast, you better launch from closer, or (ideally) point blank in a joust. What you don't do is resort to nonsense like /launchmissle.


Don't get me wrong, I love a good 1 v 5. You often lose, but winning them means HUGE bragging rights.


It's as frustrating to me as the Reb station STILL being unkillable. Worse...


Thoughts?






Pacify. Dominate. Annihilate.


INQ Admiral Shazbat- Imperial Inquisition Ace, Elder Master Jedi
Snazbat- Master Spy, Freelance Ace~~ Noctivagous- Master Shipwright, Rebel Ace

Visit The Admiral's Vice Cantina at -1025 6050, Antares, Naboo

Founder, Inquisition Navy, LONG LIVE THE PILOT
Captain: VT-49 The Pride of Antares
C&C Sick Bay Rec Room Bridge

Kirkmeister
Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:58 am
#19

I must own up and say I have used them in the past to try and throw someone off my tail. It usually makes them break away and try and dodge. I will use it on a guildie to say "hello", or just to annoy oneanother if we are waiting for the Vette. Other than that, I leave it alone. When I first learned of this I did use it a fair bit to detur pilots who had the better of me, but now I know it's "lame" I steer clear of its use outside my guild.



Yanus Ulriksen-Guild-Leader-LRDP
Master Bounty Hunter
Lakeshire-Talus
Isamu-alva
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:01 am
#20

Does anyone remember airwolf? They used to have a big dogfight for ages at the end and 9 times out of 10 the fight would be won by stringfellow hawk getting a lock on his enemies tail and launching a couple of nuclear tipped shrike missile up thier a$$.

So as far as i'm concerned, if he does it, I'll do it

Just pack chaff in your ship, its cheap (a vendor on my server does chaff launchers for 500 a go), it's pretty effective, has low mass and you can fit 14 charges in there.





Gogul - Elder Shipwright & Imperial Ace Pilot

RIP - Isamu-Alva, Radiant
RIP - Michelle, Radiant
RIP - Togusa, Radiant
XakTsaroth
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:11 am
#21

I see no problem using whatever in DS or PvP unless it is a duel or tourny where rules are defined. If you get a missle lock then who's to blame? I have been jumped in DS when I just go there to repair my ship or whatever. I am not looking for a hail. This is not 'A Knight's Tale' from Chaucer, it is a war. I know the risk when I enter DS - np. Sometimes I win, sometimes... but it is all good. I have a blast when I get attacked. Heart is pumping, etc. Really fun.


Xak Tsaroth


He who learns also teaches...





Xak Tsaroth
He who learns also teaches...
Shazbat
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:20 am
#22

Ack, perhaps I should have started a new thread, now I'm confused. I think most of us agree that pilots are welcome to use missles in DS or PvP. Are you guys referring to the /launchmissle command or using a real missle? Leave it to me to screw things up.

Oh, and using /Launchmissle on a guildy or to say hi, isn't what concerns me. Hehe.



Pacify. Dominate. Annihilate.


INQ Admiral Shazbat- Imperial Inquisition Ace, Elder Master Jedi
Snazbat- Master Spy, Freelance Ace~~ Noctivagous- Master Shipwright, Rebel Ace

Visit The Admiral's Vice Cantina at -1025 6050, Antares, Naboo

Founder, Inquisition Navy, LONG LIVE THE PILOT
Captain: VT-49 The Pride of Antares
C&C Sick Bay Rec Room Bridge

Kirkmeister
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:23 am
#23

The thread was about real missiles, but we have been sidetracked into armour and /launchmissile discussion. The original question was, are missles ok to use in DS PvP?



Yanus Ulriksen-Guild-Leader-LRDP
Master Bounty Hunter
Lakeshire-Talus
PaceNebulon
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:24 am
#24

The way I see it there are 2 parts tobeing a good pilot... tactics and skill. Tactics is more than getting into position. It is outfitting your ship, running your droid programs, or making sure your chaff launcher is full. Tactics is the art of making a fight unfair and giving yourself an advantage. Skill is your actual combat "twitch" skill and it only comes into effect during the fight. A tactical win is no different than a skilled win.


When I played Mechwarrior 4 online, lots of people complained (including me) about missile boats. then I realized that they were part of the game for a reason and by looking down on those that use them or by denying using them myself I was limiting my tactical advantage, thus I was not "bringing my A game." I didn't turn into a missile boat (not enough hardcore action for me) but I did start to carry missiles which gave me a well rounded loadout and made me more effective in all situations.


That being said I don't think anything included in the game (except for expliots like the KSE thing and the bugged hitbox of the RGI) is "illegal" or dishonorable. (yes... that includes epulse but I do think that it is a bit unbalanced... not wrong to use... unbalanced) Some things may make the fight unfair but that is the point. If someone beat you with missiles, epulse, or a JSF, don't whine about it. Realize instead that you were beaten by a better tactician or because you chose to limit your effectiveness in combat.



Pace Nebulon+Stealth+
...has mastered the Pilot profession
TIE Interceptor Guide to PvP
"Your generic TIE grunt is just plain suicidal. And the TIE Defender jockey is bloodthirsty. But the TIE Interceptor pilot, he's suicidal and bloodthirsty. When you see a squad of those maniacs flying your way, you'd better hope your hyperdrive is operational." - Kyle Katarn

FilanVader
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:27 am
#25

imo missles are allways legal, but never ever use them as a crutch allways be good with guns because chaff(or whatever CMs are called in SWG lol) and flare cant confuse your guns.


which brings up another question, can missles be used against certain parts of the enemy ship or just the cannons?
PaceNebulon
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:29 am
#26

PS. /launchmissile is dirty fighting... but no one ever said war was fair. I use it as part of an announcement macro that I made for when I sneak up on somebody, but I wouldn't use it during the fight.



Pace Nebulon+Stealth+
...has mastered the Pilot profession
TIE Interceptor Guide to PvP
"Your generic TIE grunt is just plain suicidal. And the TIE Defender jockey is bloodthirsty. But the TIE Interceptor pilot, he's suicidal and bloodthirsty. When you see a squad of those maniacs flying your way, you'd better hope your hyperdrive is operational." - Kyle Katarn

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