Pilot Archive
Thread: In PVP, how many shots on average till it's over?
Its when POB ships come in that it all goes wrong. Watch Episode IV again, TIEs and X-wings get vaped easily, but the Falcon can take a lot of punishment, with the drawback of being an easy target/requiring a crew.
POB-only shields need a truck load more shield points.
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
I rarely die in one hit, not even if one counts the occasional stray into the direct line of fire of an X-Wing's three blasters. Last time in a large scale battle it went more like "Missile Alert! Missile Alert!" dropping Chaff, dropping Chaff, Hit, back shield down, armor at 75%, Cap to shield 4, evade, another hit, front shield down, front armor vaporized, frantic jinxing, "Missile Alert! Missile Alert!", Chaff chaff, wait 5 seconds for a new command, wait 4 seconds for a new command, another hit, eject button flaring, "Missile Alert!" BOOOOM.
Yes, we all broke out the missles against your jedi fighters last event. 
Now I know you weren't flying one, but there were like 4 of em there...
PvP in space suffers from the same deficiencies that PvP on the ground suffered before the CU. The system is balanced for PvE combat, with PvP as an afterthought.
Consider:
If you look at the damage output of weapons and the defensive capabilities of our components, they're fairly matched. A Tier1 shield and Tier 1 weapon, have roughly equivalent damage resist/output values. Meaning, a player's shield is a single shot to knock out, where NPC shields are artificially ballooned to highervalues to maintain a substantive challenge level. NPC damage output is likewise less than a players to avoid these one shot kill scenarios. In PvE, this works, in PvP, the artificiality of the balance is blatant.
The only way to correct this flaw in PvP is to subject, at some point in the future, JtL content to the same kind of rebalancing that's been pretty successful in the CU on the ground. Players and NPCs both need to be tough ass targets to kill, and sure as hell more than one shot to a kill mark.
JeebusCrisp wrote:
Nothing about space PvP needs to be changed except POSSIBLY a form of mitigation implemented on POB ships.
Yeah I agree. Fighter vs Fighter seems fine, imo.
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
If we add damage mitigation or similar mechanics then between cap to shield and plain evasive flying many aces won't ever die.
QFE
JediNg wrote:
JeebusCrisp wrote:
Nothing about space PvP needs to be changed except POSSIBLY a form of mitigation implemented on POB ships.
Yeah I agree. Fighter vs Fighter seems fine, imo.
Two shots to kill an enemy is not "fine" by any stretch of the imagination.
Well.
My oppressors 2 guns are:
2798 - 4889 @ .82 vs shields and armor == 2295 - 4009
2455 - 3897 @ .79 vs shields and armor == 1939 - 3079
----------------
4234 - 7088 damage base
WO3 (x2) == 8468 - 14176 damage range. PER HIT.
- 25% for PvP damage -----------------------> 6351 - 10632 Actual PvP Damage
YOU figure it out.
To make PvP last TWO shots, I fly my Interceptor (pre-RotW) which carries ONE gun
Cert 7 Sienar 2039 - 3745 @ .74 armor/shields x2 for WO3 == 3018 - 5543 PER HIT
- 25% ---------------------------------------------------->2264 - 4157 Actual PvP Damage
With the Oppressor I 1-shot anything/everything unless I target a subsystem. With the Squint I 1-shot a-wings or other small craft, and 2 shots for any mid-grade ship, and *sometimes* 3 shots for POB's (with the new shields and awesome armor). NOT targetting a subsystem is almost guaranteed to take out the Droid Interface in the first shot, making CTSS irrelevant.
With a level 6 or 7 gun in that same Interceptor, it would take me 3-6 consecutive shots to kill anything, though I might be able to take out a reactor in 2 if they're not flying with much in the way of shields. I've seen some A-Wing pilots dodge that second shot long enough to shunt their shields back, take another hit, and repeat the process four or five times till the averages caught up to them and we took them down.
In terms of actual shots fired to take someone down, I did some rough calculations after a particularly stressful battle in which 4-5 of us were chasing an A-Wing for 3-4 minutes and figured we'd fired about 3000 shots between us before we finally got her. Ironically, I've heard that in real warfare, only about 1 out of 1000 rounds fired has ever hit anyone (most of the rest being spent as suppression fire). That helped put things in perspective for me.
By the way, POBs in PVP--grossly underpowered, pretty much everyone agrees on that. It's just difficult to work out a system that gives them a role while not unbalancing them in PVE. Monsofo had a focus thread about this a while back, and once the RotW issues are finally ironed out, it may be time to return to discussing what can be done about them.
TomoRainer wrote:
I've never died in a single shot, personally. It's always taken at least two hits within a short period of time to wipe me out even in a lightly armored Interceptor. We had one memorable battle a month or so ago where it ended up as me and another Advanced against a few A-Wings, and I chaffed about 4 missiles and got hit by another 4-5 before I was blown up. Granted, at that point my shields were dead and I couldn't shunt anymore, but I was still able to fire, and I stuck around to the bitter end.. which came rather soon thereafter.
With a level 6 or 7 gun in that same Interceptor, it would take me 3-6 consecutive shots to kill anything, though I might be able to take out a reactor in 2 if they're not flying with much in the way of shields. I've seen some A-Wing pilots dodge that second shot long enough to shunt their shields back, take another hit, and repeat the process four or five times till the averages caught up to them and we took them down.
In terms of actual shots fired to take someone down, I did some rough calculations after a particularly stressful battle in which 4-5 of us were chasing an A-Wing for 3-4 minutes and figured we'd fired about 3000 shots between us before we finally got her. Ironically, I've heard that in real warfare, only about 1 out of 1000 rounds fired has ever hit anyone (most of the rest being spent as suppression fire). That helped put things in perspective for me.
By the way, POBs in PVP--grossly underpowered, pretty much everyone agrees on that. It's just difficult to work out a system that gives them a role while not unbalancing them in PVE. Monsofo had a focus thread about this a while back, and once the RotW issues are finally ironed out, it may be time to return to discussing what can be done about them.
Then you suffered "glancing hits", and have never been hit "dead on". You must be a _very_skilled pilot.
I've had this happen only against Ryland, where it took me 4 shots to get through his shields (twice, then he ctss, then twice again to kill).
*Generally* - i don't "spray", i shoot when I think I'm on-bead and accounting for latency.
Shots fired per engagement usually ranges 5-12 total. Although I've had some nasty latency encounters where probably upwards of 50 shots were fired.
I've also taken glancing blows, and once or twice a direct hit (a la going alone vs a B-Wing with 2 A-Wing escorts) which only chewed through shields and roughly 80% of my armor. CTSS on my oppressor though is 1/14seconds, @ 2660 .... more than enough to fully restore one side of my shields. So I still won. hehe.
It would seem that different servers also display different properties with regards to PvP - I have a character on another server and space there behaves differently enough to be noticeable, though for PvE it's negligible. I have not engaged yet in PvP there so I can't say yet. But considering all other aspects of SWG seem to vary server to server, it would not surprise me if on some servers it's _never_ 1-2 shot kills.