Pilot Archive
Thread: What Joystick?
Kaiyn
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:19 am
#14
I'm still using my frist edition MicroSoft Sidewinder Pro...the one with the dial throttle...no matter what stick I buy, I take it back to the store...IM(N)HO this stick just can't be beat for ergonomics...and yes, I took back my Saitek cyborg evo gold too....This stick has been with me for TIE Fighter, XvsT and Alliance...it's like your favorite old jeans. I can't beleive it hasn't broke yet.
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CNevyn
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:16 am
#16
I tried my old serial sidewinder 3d pro. Liked the force feedback, but the software is incompatable with XP, so I couldn't turn it down, nor adjust any of the sensitivity. I tried two others, (love wallmart's return policy) a logitec wingman and a cyborg gold. (been a while...) the names may have been forgotten to protect the innocent. lol
Point is, I started exploring joysticks for JTL well after I got used to flying with keyboard / mouse. I immediately hated the 'herky jerky' feel. I couldn't find any middle ground regardless of how I adjusted settings. That free-form feel and fine control just isn't there in the JTL interface.
I have played numerous other flight sims via joystick, and love that immersive feel. Perhaps if I'd started JTL with a joystick I'd have a different opinion, but I don't really think so. The control for sticks in JTL is either on or off. Full pitch up or no pitch... etc. Various sticks out there are capable of sending a variable signal, but the current JTL interface dosen't interpret them.
Ok this's gotten out of control... heh The one thing I did love and miss having a stick was that POV hat for quick looks 'round. But I eventually went with a Nostromo n52 Speedpad. Not as immersive as a stick (and I can't convert over the hat switch) but the rest is all at my fingertips, under more buttons than anyone could want.
I've posted requests occasionally, asking if an option to give that 'free-flight' to sticks could be added. Perhaps when they do I'll give sticks another chance.
My 2 credits
BonesDragon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:54 am
#17
Mouse, all the way baaybeee!! 
Seriously, I've done pretty well with the mouse, I think you probably get more quick and precise control that way, but it could just be me. Certainly a joystick and/or hotas would be more immersive.
Seriously, I've done pretty well with the mouse, I think you probably get more quick and precise control that way, but it could just be me. Certainly a joystick and/or hotas would be more immersive.
idolatry
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:04 am
#18
CNevyn wrote:
Point is, I started exploring joysticks for JTL well after I got used to flying with keyboard / mouse. I immediately hated the 'herky jerky' feel. I couldn't find any middle ground regardless of how I adjusted settings. That free-form feel and fine control just isn't there in the JTL interface.
I have played numerous other flight sims via joystick, and love that immersive feel. Perhaps if I'd started JTL with a joystick I'd have a different opinion, but I don't really think so. The control for sticks in JTL is either on or off. Full pitch up or no pitch... etc. Various sticks out there are capable of sending a variable signal, but the current JTL interface dosen't interpret them.
Not sure I agree with that, or maybe they *have* changed it. I haven't noticed a 1/0 feel with the any stick; I'm pretty sure variable pitch/yaw/roll is working fine. I can make slow, creeping turns to line up on a target, or yank the stick bank and flip over quickly.
I'll test tonigt to make sure.
What stick were you using?
Alyxian
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:09 pm
#19
The X52 is a lot more bling, and almost double the price. I tested both the X45 and the X52out, and the "feel" and useability is very close.
CNevyn
Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:31 pm
#20
idolatry wrote:
What stick were you using?
Initially my old sidewinder 3d FF pro. (which I couldn't configure), however I had similar (though configurable) response from the logitek wingman and cyborg (pro or gold?)... With my mouse I can start a slow turn that would take me an 10 mins to complete.. (guessing) to achieve the same effect with the joystick, I'd have to hold it very steady a couple degrees left/right of center. That's the fine control I was never able to achieve.
Right now though, my only problem is my inability to remap a joystick's hatswitch axis to the d-pad of my speedpad.
Sin-Vraal
Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:19 pm
#21
MorpheousXO wrote:Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I think that I'll wait til I know that I'll be sticking with JTL, then I might just look into a HOTAS since they sound quite nice (now if I could just figure out if the x-45 or x-52 would be a better choice). Thanks!
I personally think the X52 is the better of the two (rather goes without saying: it is, after all, successor to the X45).
Build-wise, I think they're comparable products, though the X52 feels somewhat more finished, and much sleeker.
Additionally, the X45 has two huge negatives for me, both of them relating to it's size: first, I can't fit my pinkie around the joystick comfortably without holding down the pinkie switch. Second, I can't effectively work the rudder controls without getting major cramps in short order--something I discovered while playing with it in a store. Both problems are related to the size, and both are gone with the X52: the rudder rocker on the throttle is gone (replaced by a twist handle on the stick), and the handguard bit is adjustable now. If you think this might be an issue for you, you can get a rough idea of whether or not there's enough room on the X45's stick by going to any store with an X52 display model and adjusting the base of the guard up. I don't know what notch would be equivalent, but I'm sure that if the top notch is comfortable then you should be ok.
Additionally, if you like buttons, I find the X52 to be far more versatile than it's predecessor: without detailing them all, you can have a theoretical maximum of (if my math is right) 174 buttons mapped to a single profile, plus a POV hat, slider, mouse wheel, two trim knobs and the same mouse thumbstick + button from the older model.
The X52 does, of course, have at least one huge con: it's a $130 setup, and aside from all the buttons and twist handle (plus the size consideration, if you have large hands), it really doesn't add all that much over the X45.
Here's to hoping that you come to enjoy JtL, and hang around (regardless of joystick choice)!
Message Edited by Sin-Vraal on 04-20-2005 07:20 PM
Alyxian
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:43 pm
#22
Sin-Vraal wrote:
first, I can't fit my pinkie around the joystick comfortably without holding down the pinkie switch.
Yeah, but if you wrap your hand around the top, it is quite comfy, and you can still reach the pinky ((BigPaw BF had the same issue till he figured that out))
Second, I can't effectively work the rudder controls without getting major cramps in short order
Yeah, that does suck, especially for little fingered peeps like me
ShadowfireKarp
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:08 pm
#23
im usin a cyborg gold
picked it up for $15
survived many a beating against my desk, although i did have to resolder the wires on the 3 thumb buttons
and the tension screw that holds teh top part in place is stipped out, but for $15 its one tough stick
Karp (a.k.a. "Bubba Phett")
MorpheousXO
Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:59 am
#25
Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I think that I'll wait til I know that I'll be sticking with JTL, then I might just look into a HOTAS since they sound quite nice (now if I could just figure out if the x-45 or x-52 would be a better choice). Thanks!
OddjobXL
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:38 am
#26
I was a big Cougar HOTAS fan but the springs wore out and now the stick itself is a big floppy hunk of metal. Evidently this is a known issue (but not to me) as there are 3rd party kits that fix the stick. Well, spending another several hundred dollars on this setup wasn't in the cards for me.
A couple days ago I found a new CH Fighterstick USB on Amazon for about 1/3 the retail cost. Last one in stock. One of the reviewers was complaining about precisely the same issues I'd found with my Cougar so I went for it. Just got it in today. We'll see how it goes I reckon. I'll probably draft my old Microsoft Strategic Commander into service as a makeshift rudder/throttle combo and bind cornering/matching speed profiles into button presses for it.
Cougar is a beautiful thing and if I'm ever independantly wealthy and become an electrical engineer I'll mess around with fixing it up properly but for now the CH looks like the most practical and flexible stick out there if you can find one.