Pilot Archive
Thread: Actis, Belbullab, RGI, EPulse3, and everything unbalanced
the3vilDrz3d wrote:
Both attitudes hurt the community.
let me just say halyn that you are totally right, back on bria i used to be a CH/ranger, you know how often i got flamed "your profs suck, do BH" and stuff like that? a lot, but the CH's and rangers stick together, why cant us pilots.
Great post, i'm proud to be a member of this community.
I have the greatest respect for the many posters in this thread... but I dont always agree. I do not care about folks flying the JSF/GSF. The ONLY reason I shy away from it is due to the stigma the community has. It has been said too many times to count, Good pilots will beat bad pilots- unless SERIOUSLY out equipped (IE 55 YPR engine vs 80 YPR engine). IMO the chassis has little to do with it (other than the obvious aspects of it, Yt1300 vs A-Wing).
I have flown the JSF... I have flown against the JSF... For me, flying against one is no different than flying against an A-Wing. Ooooh the hitbox is so small, aaaaaaah... So? It really isnt thaaaat small - and it gets bigger when the JSF opens its wings. In fact, there is a lot of "open space" on the JSF hitbox - so shots across the bow, if you will, are actually hitting (but there isnt anything there!).
As for the RGI... Adjust the location of the hitbox... and make the wings stop BLOCKING shots - and you would have a ship that would be ok. Small hitboxes are not the end of the world - every pilot in the game is used to different size hitboxes.
Idont understand why we, as Aces - the "best", would say, "You cant fly that ship... the hitbox is too small, It will be too hard for me to hit you."
Epluse is epulse. We know the big tank flying priv's have them. I think it was meant to be their defense against a "turning fight" (really, against more maneuverable fighters). Regardless - not many priv's fly the "tanks" anymore... So it might need to be adjusted for pvp purposes. I say might, lol, it should be adjusted - but not taken away (I am an imp btw).
In summary... other than the dual shield carrying RGI (Mine is called the "Xploit 5000") - who cares who flies JSF/GSF... New pilots are doing a diservice to themselves by learning to fly on one of these... and they, without a doubt, dull your skills... but their "uberness," well... I am not scared of their uberness - I only fear their stigma.
I think I am a good pilot... I was caught in DS in a JSF (I wont explain myself - but there is a reason). Leaph killed me. Where is the problem? It wasa nice blaster fight - no missiles (I just dont use them often - especially in my first bout with Leaph). I didnt do very well against him in the JSF but it did make up for my 60 YPR, yes SIXTY, ypr engine. Not having my RE Engine job done hurts... Anyway I am digressing!
Keep flying!
PS. Great post Halyn - even if I dont agree with every point. You are right, we are a community - and probably one of the strongest gamewise. Right now, we have a sense of honor... I would hate to see this degenerate into AFK killing (hehe you are AFK die!), loadkilling, cheap shots, etc...
Spacey wrote:
I have flown the JSF... I have flown against the JSF... For me, flying against one is no different than flying against an A-Wing. Ooooh the hitbox is so small, aaaaaaah... So? It really isnt thaaaat small - and it gets bigger when the JSF opens its wings. In fact, there is a lot of "open space" on the JSF hitbox - so shots across the bow, if you will, are actually hitting (but there isnt anything there!).
Bountyzhunter wrote:
Heres my deal:
I like the pilot community, and I enjoy the heck out of the space game as well as the ground game.
I'm sorry if the rest of the community doesnt it like it, but I enjoy the ROTW ships alot, mainly just because of what they are, not necessarily of their abilities, but it does help since it gives us the option of making some better light fighters to better compete with the heavies out there. If the rest of the community doesnt like it, well, thats too bad for them. If I engage in a pvp tourney with set rules, I will follow them, as I can fly my TIEs just as well, but I will be damned if I am not going to fly around in what I like just because someone else doesnt like it. When I see someone in DS, and they whine and moan because I use my bell, I just come back in my advanced and kill them again just for spite.
pilot's real skill > any ROTW ship by far.
So when I sometimes jump into my JSF when my FL ships get pounded into oblivion (and when the Imps are numerically superior) and then proceed to wiping DS clean of enemies, is it not unbalanced?
Also AWing and JSF cant be compared by a longshot... Ive flown both ships against the same group of 8 imperials, flying everything from Heavies thru Classic TIEs to JSFs and B22s... In the AW I lasted but 20-30 secs where I killed all 8 in the JSF...
The JSF, B22 and so on would be balanced the instant they have <60k mass and a bigger hitbox... Every classic ship in which you can mount a lvl 10 engine are severly limited in its other abilities: strap a l10 ina AWing or Advanced, and you have next to no defense, in a hvy or Relic chassis you have the ability to equip both a l10 engine as well as a lvl 7 shield and -still- have awesome PvP firepower... Some talk about the Advanced XWing as well... Sure these are inbalanced as well... But they atleast have a hitbox and manouvring thatoffsets the mass somewhat
For PvE Id say... go with the chassis you enjoys the most.. JSFs in PvP -I- usually dont mind much, seeing as most good PvP pilots have enough respect for their opponents that they fly a matching ship... Admit it, seing nothing but JSF and or B22s in space would be rather boring eh?
NIR_Bria wrote:
So when I sometimes jump into my JSF when my FL ships get pounded into oblivion (and when the Imps are numerically superior) and then proceed to wiping DS clean of enemies, is it not unbalanced?
Also AWing and JSF cant be compared by a longshot... Ive flown both ships against the same group of 8 imperials, flying everything from Heavies thru Classic TIEs to JSFs and B22s... In the AW I lasted but 20-30 secs where I killed all 8 in the JSF...
The JSF, B22 and so on would be balanced the instant they have <60k mass and a bigger hitbox... Every classic ship in which you can mount a lvl 10 engine are severly limited in its other abilities: strap a l10 ina AWing or Advanced, and you have next to no defense, in a hvy or Relic chassis you have the ability to equip both a l10 engine as well as a lvl 7 shield and -still- have awesome PvP firepower... Some talk about the Advanced XWing as well... Sure these are inbalanced as well... But they atleast have a hitbox and manouvring thatoffsets the mass somewhat
For PvE Id say... go with the chassis you enjoys the most.. JSFs in PvP -I- usually dont mind much, seeing as most good PvP pilots have enough respect for their opponents that they fly a matching ship... Admit it, seing nothing but JSF and or B22s in space would be rather boring eh?
)If you read that sentence again youll see I said -most- good PvPers hold back
I dont mind a single Ace JSF as this can be a huge challenge...
The fact that I generally have harder fights against AWs or Interceptors is a testimony that very few really good PvP pilots fly them... Ive encountered a few tho... Space isnt as much about winning for me... I enjoy a loss against a better pilot in a AW f.ex. more than a win against a newbie in a JSF
NIR_Bria wrote:
If you read that sentence again youll see I said -most- good PvPers hold back
I dont mind a single Ace JSF as this can be a huge challenge...
The fact that I generally have harder fights against AWs or Interceptors is a testimony that very few really good PvP pilots fly them... Ive encountered a few tho... Space isnt as much about winning for me... I enjoy a loss against a better pilot in a AW f.ex. more than a win against a newbie in a JSF
GerricSablestar wrote:
By the way, a question of curiousity on this whole topic: I often see the B-22 and Eta-2 derided by ace pilots, but I don't think I've ever seen a pre-nerf DI or a pre-nerf high-YPR/speed engine called unbalanced. Clearly they were taken out of the drop tables for a reason…so how is using one (or a component RE'd using one) any less unbalanced than using a chassis that doesn't fall into line with the other available chassis? (Please note, I am not trying to say pre-nerf DIs/engines shouldn't be used—if I had one it'd be loaded onto a ship in a heartbeat
Because Pre-nerf DI's are a convenience, less time to load the standard set of programs, ship would work just as well with a 30 speed, 500 mass current DI. Engines have been partly unnerfed by the QID, you can make BETTER L8 engines now then what was possible with the prenerf Haor Chall.
Prenerf L6's are only better on top speed then postnerf which doesn't help in a dogfight but is again a convenience in getting from a to b and jousting gunboats.
This reminds me of the AW and FA discussions of this plane or that plane being too "uber".
I really didn't care because I could climb into an M2 Zero and still smoke some annoying wannabe in a 4c Corsair, D9, or Tempest.
It would be completely unbalanced if the chassis were only available to one specific faction. Anyone can pilot a GSF and,if you want to, you too can grind out a JSF. The RGI, well it does need two particular bugfixes, but then it would be perfectly ok.
Personally, again, I won't care. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, an imbalance only exists if there is not counter to it.
EPulse is a skill. It requires "no skill" to use it I guess, but I've been nerfed enough to know better than to really ask for nerfs on another. So my suggestion is to suck it up, unless you want to get just as screwed as the ground game.
Edit: Oops, I said D9, should have been K4 for the german plane.
Message Edited by EvilAztec on 10-29-2005 12:35 PM
I don't post much. Mainly since I just started back on the game and am finding space to be the most enjoyment for me. One thing people might want to think about before condemning the RotW ships. While i agree that if you are in a tournament then the people running it can make the rules they want (i.e. none of those ships). But the big thing people complain about is the advantages that those ships give really really good pilots. Personally i'll use my Bel not because of the advantage it gives me over other people but because it allows me to compete with other people. I might not be the best pilot but at least i don't get the thrill of going to the cloner over and over and over. That is one of the reason people quit the ground game for space. Most of the best PVPers were all going jedi. Now the people that aren't can't compete. I see all the names on here that i'm sure I'd love to recognize in space if i were on your servers, and you're the kind of people that don't need the "easy" ship to be dangerous. But don't begrudge those of us that don't have your skill level the kind of equipment that lets us at least stand a chance against you. It's no fun to fly into DS just so you can die all the time. I'm sure going to continue trying the older ships. Personally I love my Ywing LP, and maybe i'll someday be good enough (and crazy enough) to fly it into DS, but that will only happen after i work my way up from those "easy" ships.
Lucien Moredhal
Sunrunner
There is a mentality too, its sort of a subjective view, but many of the pilots who seem to show up to the Bloodfin fights in JSFs are not interesting in fun or neat duels. In fact, they frankly come from the same mindset that many groundpounders have that winning at any cost is winning, and the goal is to drive everyone else to the point of deguilding, quitting, or just plain logging off (like, say, clonecamping). I guess that's still a win, but then you don't have anyone to fly against.
Our events tend to be wave after wave blowing each other up. It's not uncommon on Bloodfin to get a free trip back to the station many times over - we fight for the fun of it. If all the rebels all logged off because we started loadkilling, epulsing, and whatever else then yeah, we might win...but that's not fun. Instead we're coming back over and over, sending joking tells back and forth, and having a blast.
Most of the time anyway. Three times now I've had different Actis pilots show up on the Imperial side. All three times they were, frankly, complete jerks from the ground game who thought they knew everything. They bad mouthed everyone, didn't listen to strategy, and (surprise!) were the first to die in battles, all the while whining about their ships.
Actis pilots are like jedi. Some are good, and competent. Many just show up at events to pwn everyone and are, frankly, jerks. They post things on the forums like howhard a mission was in their Actis or how their ship doesn't have enough mass. They never stop to learn to fly, which means MUCH more than just fancy maneuvers in a ship that's very small and difficult to hit. More than anything else about the ship being unbalanced - maybe that attitude is enough not to want them around, or at least certainly enough to give them a bad name.
Regarding PvP and winning at all costs - I love the fight, and I love watching my opponent go up in flames. But it is soooo much more exciting to toast a 90k unbalanced beast in my 50k Interceptor. Just more of a challenge, more fun in winning, and they usually come back for a few more rounds.
Message Edited by Attacca on 10-29-2005 04:34 PM