Pilot Archive
Thread: Are we being forced out of space?
Kylania
Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:30 pm
#14
alyris wrote:
I can understand your point. But, if you look at rotw, the heavy fighter quest, you cannot do these unless your are either good in space, or have friends.
Of course you need friends. This game is designed to have GROUP missions for content. You cannot solo the entire game. The orginal poster said something about her and a partner, well, you'd gonna need more than just two people for some content. That's just the way MULTIPLAYER games are. If you're unable or unwilling to make friends who can help you with difficult missions, you shouldn't expect to have access to all content in the game.
Sylia
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:01 pm
#15
Well the starmap quest was bogus.
It was al well and fine except the spider cave.
I got lucky with my cl54 toon and I was heading in just after a group had cleared to it.
I had to fight my way down with my alt, a cl 80
Requiring double combat masteries in this sort of content really rubs me the wrong way.
As far as having a mission type like described above where you would take out escorts and such, disable a cap ship, then have to board and fight your way to the bridge etc. is a great way to go ... with one exception.
"/shout forming group to cap a vette send tell (must be cl 70 plus)"
You know shipwrights like to go for a spin now and then just like dancers and architects, the devs need to give the less combat oriented group members something to do.
After all who's gonna form a group to cap a vette when half the group that's not cl 80 is dragging them down inside?
Anyone can be a master pilot without sacrificing anything, no one can be cl 80 without sacrificing pretty much everything else.
Simply set it up so that not the entire team can board, some need to stay outside and continue to provide cover while the combat team is inside doing thier thing, spawn enemy reinforcements whom if not dealt with will try to scuttle the ship, causing internal plasma leaks etc.
That way the difficulty won't be exclusionary to non-combat professions.
psikobunny
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:04 pm
#16
I can only assume that the "we" you mean in your headline and post are Pilots, and if that's the case, then your premise isn't correct. If you think of Pilot like any other profession, then you might be right, but it's not. Pilot is a meta profession layered over whatever you choose to be on the ground. As the JtL aspect of the game grows and expands, Piloting will be a key for access to different kinds of content, but your ability to participate will be based on your ground skills, just as things on the ground are limited based on your skills.
I freely admit that in the past noncombat ground professions have gotten the happy meal portions when it comes to content directed for them, but I think that's something Development realizes and is working to address. The fact that there were some ground combat needed spacey quests in RotW is balanced by the many pilot only or pilot/crafter oriented ones.
It doesn't mean anyone is being "forced out" of space, it means space content is growing and diversifying.
Aceses
Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:41 pm
#17
I think it really is a matter of moving the ground pounders into space. Space is StarWars and not enough people got JTL. The new content with RoTW and JTL being put in with it and the total experience tells me that SOE is going to push JTL with all future expansions and provide "incentives" for people to go into space. At some point I am sure they will simply cut off the people with out it as MMORPGs have to do at some point.
The thing I don't understand is why with no skill points required isn't everyone some level of pilot beyond novice?
On that note, why as a pilot don't you have any ground combat skills? Your a pure crafter? Well I also see SOE trying to change that into the EQ2 model and that you will need ground combat or be forced to buy all resources and that will lower your profit and/or make it hard to compete with others crafters that are a lvl54 something.
Most of all the new space/ground quests are easy enough at lvl54.
The thing I don't understand is why with no skill points required isn't everyone some level of pilot beyond novice?
On that note, why as a pilot don't you have any ground combat skills? Your a pure crafter? Well I also see SOE trying to change that into the EQ2 model and that you will need ground combat or be forced to buy all resources and that will lower your profit and/or make it hard to compete with others crafters that are a lvl54 something.
Most of all the new space/ground quests are easy enough at lvl54.
riotcontrol
Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:07 pm
#18
Mixing ground and space content is great - now with JTL coming with the ROTW expansion "free of charge", it seems that they can finally design quests and missions that use both "games" seamlessly, since most people will actually have it. Which is quite nice.
Of course, if you're a poor pilot or don't have a fighter ship, you'll need an escort in space, and if you're a non-combat/"lowlevel" character in the ground game, you'll need friends or mercenaries to help you.
Seems to me that everything's working out ok, as long as all new boarding content isn't like the Avatar station (designed with a certain Jedi template in mind...).
Of course, if you're a poor pilot or don't have a fighter ship, you'll need an escort in space, and if you're a non-combat/"lowlevel" character in the ground game, you'll need friends or mercenaries to help you.
Seems to me that everything's working out ok, as long as all new boarding content isn't like the Avatar station (designed with a certain Jedi template in mind...).
Message Edited by riotcontrol on 06-10-2005 02:08 AM
Br-10n
Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:52 pm
#19
Aceses wrote:
I think it really is a matter of moving the ground pounders into space. Space is StarWars and not enough people got JTL. The new content with RoTW and JTL being put in with it and the total experience tells me that SOE is going to push JTL with all future expansions and provide "incentives" for people to go into space. At some point I am sure they will simply cut off the people with out it as MMORPGs have to do at some point.
The thing I don't understand is why with no skill points required isn't everyone some level of pilot beyond novice?
On that note, why as a pilot don't you have any ground combat skills? Your a pure crafter? Well I also see SOE trying to change that into the EQ2 model and that you will need ground combat or be forced to buy all resources and that will lower your profit and/or make it hard to compete with others crafters that are a lvl54 something.
Most of all the new space/ground quests are easy enough at lvl54.
Yes, I have no combat skills because I'm a pure crafter; Master Artisan, Master Droid Engineer, and Master Shipwright take up enough skill points that I can't get enough combat skills to be useful. I dumped all my Merchant points and respeced to Marksman, but that was only enough to give me CL5 or 8 or some nonsense. So I dumped all of those and went back to Merchant.
I'm actually not having a problem finding people to help me with quests in space, trainer missions, etc.
XFS0701
Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:12 pm
#20
Just as an addendum, Smuggler's Alliance pilots have always been forced out of space. Once you hit tier 3, your trainer is in Jabba's Palace. That means doing all those annoying quests for the eighteen thousand of Jabba's goons that you have to go through before you can go in to see your trainer. So if you're not prepared to take down CL 30 tuskens, you can't advance beyond tier 3. Period. I know certain Imperial pilots have the same problem with getting into the Emperor's Retreat. At the time I did both of the theme parks, back before the CU, I was a marksman with Novice Carbineer...and not a whole lot else. In the CU, I would be like CL 15. But I managed just fine using bleeding/action shots. Took a while to shoot a bit, run away, heal, come back, shoot some more, et al. Now, I would never have been able to do it.
Treena_Daal
Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:04 pm
#21
XFS0701, both of those squadrons have space missions that allow you to land at the respective themeparks and give you the ability to go where you need to go to do your missions. So no, that doesn't really count.
And, for the record, I'm not saying that I don't want there to be missions that require both. It just seems that we are seeing a trend toward it more and more. I don't mind that the Vettes will require ground based skills. What bothers me is that we haven't seen anything comming for people who only have battle skills in space. People are saying that the next expansion is going to be "JtL-central", but it seems to me that the biggest parts of it are a lot like Kashyyyk. You just have to use JtL to get to the content. Once you get there, it's ground based. That's not what I would expect from a "JtL-central" expansion.
I do agree that there is a place for this. But I'm afraid that the new expansion will come out like RotW. A bunch of mixed missions for those who have the ground based CL for it, and maybe a handful of new escorts for those of us who don't. That's really what I am afraid the Vette is going to turn into for people like me. Fly the group to the ship, disable it, then play "Escort the non-moving ship" as wave after wave of ships come to try to stop us while the ground team does their thing. I'm sure we all know how much fun that sounds like. I mean really, how many people enjoy escort missions?
I'm just worried that I won't have anything new out of this expansion. They're giving us a new planet that is only for people who PvP, capital ships for people who can do the fighting to take them over, and what for those of us who just want to fly? Baby sitting disabled Vettes and a handful of duty missions? Is this what I have to look forward to?
And, for the record, I'm not saying that I don't want there to be missions that require both. It just seems that we are seeing a trend toward it more and more. I don't mind that the Vettes will require ground based skills. What bothers me is that we haven't seen anything comming for people who only have battle skills in space. People are saying that the next expansion is going to be "JtL-central", but it seems to me that the biggest parts of it are a lot like Kashyyyk. You just have to use JtL to get to the content. Once you get there, it's ground based. That's not what I would expect from a "JtL-central" expansion.
I do agree that there is a place for this. But I'm afraid that the new expansion will come out like RotW. A bunch of mixed missions for those who have the ground based CL for it, and maybe a handful of new escorts for those of us who don't. That's really what I am afraid the Vette is going to turn into for people like me. Fly the group to the ship, disable it, then play "Escort the non-moving ship" as wave after wave of ships come to try to stop us while the ground team does their thing. I'm sure we all know how much fun that sounds like. I mean really, how many people enjoy escort missions?
I'm just worried that I won't have anything new out of this expansion. They're giving us a new planet that is only for people who PvP, capital ships for people who can do the fighting to take them over, and what for those of us who just want to fly? Baby sitting disabled Vettes and a handful of duty missions? Is this what I have to look forward to?
KiwiKnutten
Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:01 am
#22
I think Nym´s starmap was a fun break out of space actually.
More of those kinds of quests. Not too hard, not too easy.
My problem with RotW was not the fact that i was forced to ground to get stuff, it was the new space missions and quests where really dissapointing. I would like to see somehting other than escorts too.
Maybe a bigger space battle or something, XWA style where you can get help from NPC wingmen aswell. Like that out 5 Blacksun transports, and you get swarmed by BS fighters.
TomedNor
Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:56 am
#23
DaveG wrote:
Yeah, far be it from me to defend the devs, but I think things are okay here. They've made the new ships tradable. So if you're a crafter, you don't have much physical muscle, but you do have financial muscle.
...
Except they haven't. Only the Griveous fighter is tradable.
menyou
Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:51 am
#24
I think it's pretty bad TBH that we are getting ground quests to get space shipping.
Just the classic example is the JSF... a CL1 CANNOT get that... EVEN if they are a ACE pilot. Technically you can't get the ARC either although I lucked out with the escort on Kassh and was able to do the quest on my CL1/Master Chef/Master Dancer.
Expecting high level pilots to be an elite combattant ( even though the mobs on the JSF are in the 20-30 range you probably need to be an CL54 to be safe) is pretty bad. Either the quests need to be space/no ground combat OR tradeable.
Just the classic example is the JSF... a CL1 CANNOT get that... EVEN if they are a ACE pilot. Technically you can't get the ARC either although I lucked out with the escort on Kassh and was able to do the quest on my CL1/Master Chef/Master Dancer.
Expecting high level pilots to be an elite combattant ( even though the mobs on the JSF are in the 20-30 range you probably need to be an CL54 to be safe) is pretty bad. Either the quests need to be space/no ground combat OR tradeable.
menyou
Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:58 am
#25
XFS0701 wrote:
Just as an addendum, Smuggler's Alliance pilots have always been forced out of space. Once you hit tier 3, your trainer is in Jabba's Palace. That means doing all those annoying quests for the eighteen thousand of Jabba's goons that you have to go through before you can go in to see your trainer. So if you're not prepared to take down CL 30 tuskens, you can't advance beyond tier 3. Period. I know certain Imperial pilots have the same problem with getting into the Emperor's Retreat. At the time I did both of the theme parks, back before the CU, I was a marksman with Novice Carbineer...and not a whole lot else. In the CU, I would be like CL 15. But I managed just fine using bleeding/action shots. Took a while to shoot a bit, run away, heal, come back, shoot some more, et al. Now, I would never have been able to do it.
You can get into Jabba's WITHOUT doing the TP - there is a space station mission to gain access.
menyou
Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:10 am
#26
TomedNor wrote:
DaveG wrote:
Yeah, far be it from me to defend the devs, but I think things are okay here. They've made the new ships tradable. So if you're a crafter, you don't have much physical muscle, but you do have financial muscle.
...
Except they haven't. Only the Griveous fighter is tradable.
Not strictly true - the ARC and JSF are tradeable... but unusueable without doing the quest ( which instantly pushes ALL non-combatants out of doing the quest
)