Pilot Archive
Thread: Deep Space is like this?
TomoRainer
Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:15 am
#14
PVP isn't one shot one kill; that's one of the great myths of space combat. My flimsy Interceptor regularly absorbs a hit to my shields without seeing any other damage to my armor or components. If you seem to be dying in one shot, it's probably more like two or three blasters hitting you at once, and possibly with more than one volley. If this is the case, I recommend checking for enemy players more often and moving more.
Shields, armor, and components with high armor values do make a difference. That difference may seem slight--the difference between Mk I armor and Mk IV may only give you protection against one more hit--but if you're flying well, that will give you a significant advantage.
I don't know of any guides to space PVP, but it would be pretty handy to have one, since the learning curve is so steep and the difference between it and PVE is tremendous. The basics, though, would be always run overcharge programs, carry missiles and countermeasures, check frequently (as in every 5-10 seconds frequent) for other players, and once an enemy is in sight, never move in a predictable pattern. The margin for error in space is very slight, and if you slip up or aren't taking full advantage of your ship, a good pilot will kill you very quickly.
Shields, armor, and components with high armor values do make a difference. That difference may seem slight--the difference between Mk I armor and Mk IV may only give you protection against one more hit--but if you're flying well, that will give you a significant advantage.
I don't know of any guides to space PVP, but it would be pretty handy to have one, since the learning curve is so steep and the difference between it and PVE is tremendous. The basics, though, would be always run overcharge programs, carry missiles and countermeasures, check frequently (as in every 5-10 seconds frequent) for other players, and once an enemy is in sight, never move in a predictable pattern. The margin for error in space is very slight, and if you slip up or aren't taking full advantage of your ship, a good pilot will kill you very quickly.
Richmond24
Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:44 am
#15
Oh and Tomo, if its you that has the shipwright shop near Coronet, i love that store, i go there for all my parts hehe.
Thanks for the information all, maybe ill try it again, but im second guessing my A-wing as being the best for deep space. i cant seem to load any ordinance at all without giving up something vital. Except for my blasters, almost everything is as light as possoble..
psikobunny
Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:46 am
#16
I personally think PvP is more realistic than PvE. 1-3 shots to kill isnt bad or unfair once you know what to expect.
Zade_Taerin
Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:09 pm
#17
I bind "Target next Player" (Default is the L key I believe) to one of my joystick buttons. I keep an eye on my radar for red dots... when there are multiple red I hit "Target next Player" often, if there is no retargeting then I return to my focus to the NPC target. Situational awareness is very important, never assume a mass of red dots are NPCs while in Deep Space or if you are overt in regular space. Players will be your biggest threat... hit "Target next Player" often to verify that there is no threat. I've had players try to jump me while I've been overt assisting on Vette missions... been taken out once... have taken down 12. They must be pretty surprised to see a Y-Wing LP pull a tight turn at a speed of 1018, the next thing they know they have multiple 4500 and 6000 point shots coming at them... thanks to Engine Overload 3, Weapon Overload 3. I fire two salvos just outside reticle range and then hit boosters and pull up. Any ship will disappear once 10500 points of damage connect, times that by 2 (21000) and anything hit will turn to vapour.
Message Edited by Zade_Taerin on 01-30-2005 04:11 PM
KaylBreinhar
Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:16 pm
#18
Checklist for Deep Space:
1. Hit full throttle (a stationary target is a dead target)
2. Press Target Next Enemy Player key
3. Run a /who (most PvPers aren't stupid enough to not be /anon, but who knows...also, /who has a range of about 4k, so run it sporadically as you get deeper into the zone.)
4. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
5. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
6. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
7. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13...... You get the idea.
You're safer in DS the closer you are to the center of the zone, since you won't show up on the scans of players just entering the zone.
Watch out for the targeting noise (that obnoxious 'plink' noise) - this means someone is examining you (it can also happen when an NPC shoots you when you don't have another enemy targeted). Upon hearing it (when you don't cause it yourself by targeting an enemy), *ALWAYS* press the Target Next Enemy Player key.
If you're not confident in your ability to fight them off, light boosters and fly towards the nearest friendly gunboat flight. If he even puts one bolt into their shields trying to gun for you, he's gonna have a REALLY bad day.
1. Hit full throttle (a stationary target is a dead target)
2. Press Target Next Enemy Player key
3. Run a /who (most PvPers aren't stupid enough to not be /anon, but who knows...also, /who has a range of about 4k, so run it sporadically as you get deeper into the zone.)
4. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
5. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
6. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
7. Press Target Next Enemy Player key *AGAIN*
8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13...... You get the idea.
You're safer in DS the closer you are to the center of the zone, since you won't show up on the scans of players just entering the zone.
Watch out for the targeting noise (that obnoxious 'plink' noise) - this means someone is examining you (it can also happen when an NPC shoots you when you don't have another enemy targeted). Upon hearing it (when you don't cause it yourself by targeting an enemy), *ALWAYS* press the Target Next Enemy Player key.
If you're not confident in your ability to fight them off, light boosters and fly towards the nearest friendly gunboat flight. If he even puts one bolt into their shields trying to gun for you, he's gonna have a REALLY bad day.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 01-30-2005 04:17 PM
KaylBreinhar
Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:20 pm
#19
Also, forget Shift-Tab. The inherent flaw in Shift-Tab is that it only tells you what the CLOSEST enemy is.
If there's a five ship gank squad in the zone, you're only going to see the one that's flying towards you the fastest. TNEP allows you to scroll through the enemies within your scanning range (about 4k).
If there's a five ship gank squad in the zone, you're only going to see the one that's flying towards you the fastest. TNEP allows you to scroll through the enemies within your scanning range (about 4k).
1st_Viduus
Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:10 am
#20
Well.... lots if opinion and misinformation (and lack of it) in this thread... let me add my own.
1. Oppressor is viable for PvP. Depends who is flying it and what you put in it.
2. No, there's not a shield out there that can absorb the damage that 1 shot can put out (twinned guns) if it hits clean. So yes it is 1 shot 1 kill. If you're taking glancing hits (they do happen... a lot) then you can survive them, but probably not too many.
My 2 guns put out hits for averaged 2250 min(each) and a max of 4688 and 3756 damage -- at 80% effectiveness to both shields and armor. Figure you can take it? 25% reduction indeed....
3. If you are using crafted weapons you had best leave, you won't be killing anyone. They doabouthalf thedamage ofRE'd guns of same min/max stats.(I'm a MSW as well btw).
4. It is definitely about who catches who first. If you get into a melee round with a similar ship, it's about who gets the lucky shot in - no more, no less. If it was 5-8 shots to kill, then skill would be way more important. You're only skill that's gonna count is being able to Dodge and not be predictable. For about 10 seconds, if you're both really good. Maybe longer if it's an Advanced vs an A-Wing. Had a fight last a whopping 20 seconds once, but man that a-wing pilot could fly!
Equal Awarenesscombat between a light fighter and a medium attack craft... the odds are stacked against the medium ship, but it's not impossible.
5. Don't use shift-tab. Use "L". Cycles through players in range. Watch that icon for opposing faction ships. "Closest" player enemy won't help you if there's more than one -- which there frequently is, when anyone is actually out there.
Typing /who helps to some small degree, at least you know you aren't alone, even if not everyone is wearing a flashy Faction Ace title.
"Situational Awareness" is a bit of a joke when you have 30 npc ships within 800m of you and one lone player is sneakin up on your 6, but do the best you can and don't fret if you get buttered... it's not like it cost you anything, except a few mins in the cantina and medcenter (unless you're tkm), and you know there was no skill involved whatsoever. So you don't lose any face, and if your killer crows he's not going to get any respect for it either. At least, not from any of the skilled aces out there.
6. CM's are a necessity... which makes missiles against players (who are prepared) a joke. Don't bother, a decent pilot (that knows you are there) won't ever let you get a lock anyway. And if you can fire, 1 cm will take out multiple missiles. And you can carry more CM than missiles to boot.
7. Droid programs are a must -- but knowing your ship and equipment are also. You with the 103.7 speed engine... you're just asking for death. Your PYR is so low that watching you turn is like watching a feather drop. Get yourself some looted stuff and save up 30 engines if you have to to max out the PYR stats.
8. Just gotta throw my $0.02 in on that one... : "PvP is more realistic..." bah, humbug. That's completely irrelevant first of all, and secondly, "realistic" compared to what? Don't go WWII-ing me, they didn't have shields in WWII. Or armor for that matter, unless you count the firewall that protected *most* of a pilots back.
The movies? Riiiight, the one where Luke takes 4 hits in the rear while he has all shields forward and still doesn't go boom? Or the one where everyone that isn't a hero dies in 1 or 2 shots..? The movies play it both ways, so you can't use that either. Face it, it's a game, a Science Fiction game, and realism has very little to do with it.
The movies? Riiiight, the one where Luke takes 4 hits in the rear while he has all shields forward and still doesn't go boom? Or the one where everyone that isn't a hero dies in 1 or 2 shots..? The movies play it both ways, so you can't use that either. Face it, it's a game, a Science Fiction game, and realism has very little to do with it.
I'm sure there's a million other things I could add, but really those are the most important things to consider... note I said consider, not take as gospel. Every situation is different, and every ship and pilot have different strengths to bolster and weaknesses to cover, so not everything here applies to everyone.
But it's a start.
Imaridril
Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:26 am
#21
psikobunny wrote:
I personally think PvP is more realistic than PvE. 1-3 shots to kill isnt bad or unfair once you know what to expect.
Realism has to take a backseat to gameplay.PvP is virtually dead in JTL. Something needs to be fixed with it. I play on one of the more populated servers, and I go overt in space quite a bit,plus I'm in Deep Space several hours a day at least, often during peak times. Despite all that, I often go days at a time without finding a single other player to PvP against, and when I do come across someone, the battle is pretty much always over in about 10 seconds tops. I can totally sympathize with the original poster. 90% of the kills I get are gank kills, where the person I take out doesn't even know there's about to be a battle. The guns on my ship, even with a minimum damage roll, will still one-shot ANY player ship in the game, even if he has a pre-nerf shifted Level 8 reward shield and Mark V armor. Its gotten to the point where I feel uneasy after every PvP kill, because all I can think about is that every person I one-shot in a 5 second battle is probably one more person who will give up on PvP completely.
sillyrack
Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:20 am
#22
Kadix wrote
We really need a guide to Deep Space / JTL PvP stickied at the top of this forum.
Anyways, two key things to success in PvP:
1. ALWAYS, ALWAYS be looking for hostile players (by default, shift+tab).
2. Bring a maneuverable ship. A-Wing and TIE Advanced/Interceptor are acceptible. X-Wings and TIE Oppressors are not.
I think you'll find that alot of people disagree with that statement me being one of them. I fly a X-wing andI reguarly fight and beat player advanced/interceptor/oppressors and decimators. And during a large battle we held inDS on chimaeraI've seen many oppressors paste an A-wing all over the sky. I'd say any fighter if viable in DS, its the pilot behind the stick that makes it viable not the ship. Manuaverability is not everything!
Ramona_Garcia
Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:48 am
#23
If we had 5-7 hit kills you'd almost never kill a skilled pilot with shunt cap to shield 4.
psikobunny
Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am
#24
1st_Viduus wrote:
8. Just gotta throw my $0.02 in on that one... : "PvP is more realistic..." bah, humbug. That's completely irrelevant first of all, and secondly, "realistic" compared to what?
As I said, if you read the whole sentence 
more realistic than PvE. I didnt bring up the movies, WWII, or anything else. I didn't get much into justifying my stand, but 1-2 hits taking out a ship is still more appropriate than 6-10. I agree with Ramona about CtSS4, and I think that the margin of error needs to be on the side of fast and lethal, since it would be very easy to fall down the slope into long, pointless and boring.
more realistic than PvE. I didnt bring up the movies, WWII, or anything else. I didn't get much into justifying my stand, but 1-2 hits taking out a ship is still more appropriate than 6-10. I agree with Ramona about CtSS4, and I think that the margin of error needs to be on the side of fast and lethal, since it would be very easy to fall down the slope into long, pointless and boring.PS- hugs and kisses to my 1 star bandit, 1st post was a joke, second post was meant to be helpful, and while the third post may have been an objectionable opinion, that's not really a valid excuse to 1star all 3.
Message Edited by psikobunny on 01-31-2005 09:43 AM
sillyrack
Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:50 am
#25
Psikobunny wrote
and I think that the margin of error needs to be on the side of fast and lethal, since it would be very easy to fall down the slope into long, pointless and boring.
Totally agree.
If your prepared for the attack then you can actually last a long time. I mentioned above that we had a battle in Chimaera the other week and I've been chased down by 5-6 oppressors and managed to evade for atleast a minute before being vaped. If I can do that against 5 then one on one can be just a drawn out when the pilots are skilled. The main problem is that most of the time your tartget does not know your coming and is not prepared for it. If a change to the radar could be made so that player ships showed up differently than the NPC then this would certainly make pvp more challanging.
Ramona_Garcia
Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:17 am
#26
I thought that's what the target closest enemy and other commands are for... after all, if you don't pay attention - like I did, last night in kessel - youdeserve to get vaporized - as I did.
Scrotumrack wrote:
Totally agree.
If your prepared for the attack then you can actually last a long time. I mentioned above that we had a battle in Chimaera the other week and I've been chased down by 5-6 oppressors and managed to evade for atleast a minute before being vaped. If I can do that against 5 then one on one can be just a drawn out when the pilots are skilled. The main problem is that most of the time your tartget does not know your coming and is not prepared for it. If a change to the radar could be made so that player ships showed up differently than the NPC then this would certainly make pvp more challanging.