Pilot Archive
Thread: Opressor/B-Wing/Krayt Need to be vastly similar :: Here's Why
Ducimus
Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:57 pm
#14
If it becomes absolutley neccessary to nerf the Krayt, id rather them just replace the MP turret with another missle launcher that hardly anone would use.
Solo play, pilot woudlnt lose anything, MP play it removes complaints saying its overpowered. Downside is, at that point its more of a glorfied kimogilla than it is now.
However id rather them leave everything as is except:
- REvamp missle's and their cost
- *MAYBE* slighly increase handling on opressor. If this thing has the same YPR rating of a krat though.. NO, leave it as is. If missles were cost effective, having 3 slammed up the targets kiester is an "i win" button. OR.........., replace one missle mount for a 3rd gun.
- Make the B wing more managable to fly and manuever. Reduce its slide some.
Solo play, pilot woudlnt lose anything, MP play it removes complaints saying its overpowered. Downside is, at that point its more of a glorfied kimogilla than it is now.
However id rather them leave everything as is except:
- REvamp missle's and their cost
- *MAYBE* slighly increase handling on opressor. If this thing has the same YPR rating of a krat though.. NO, leave it as is. If missles were cost effective, having 3 slammed up the targets kiester is an "i win" button. OR.........., replace one missle mount for a 3rd gun.
- Make the B wing more managable to fly and manuever. Reduce its slide some.
blueoasis
Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:40 pm
#15
TomoRainer wrote:
If you're talking PVP, there's no way I use the Krayt for this. I'd rather have a wingman than a gunner, and I'd rather have a tiny, nimble Dunelizard than a fat Krayt when I'm going up against another person.
You think the Krayt is fat? And you don't think it's nimble? I certainly don't feel like I'm flying in a large target when I fly my Krayt, especially not in comparison to the Rihx or the Firespray. And It may not be *as* nimble as the Dune, but it's DAMN nimble for a ship of that mass. I have zero complaints about the handling on the Krayt. Load up Engine Overload 3 or 4 and you really have no control limitations at all.
Now, the Krayt has on average 210k mass w/ 3 pilot guns, while the Dune has on average 85k mass w/ 2 pilot guns. This translates into a tremendous damage advantage for the Krayt. I can load this thing up with 3 guns in the the 3800 - 4,000 dmg range. I can also load up my shield with 2500 front/back hitpoints and 15 recharge rate.
Ducimus
Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:52 pm
#16
blueoasis
TomoRainer does acutally draw up some very good points. Espeically with PvP. Right now all that mass, and hardpoints doesnt mean a whole lot when all you need to kill any Player reguardless of what they're flying is an A wing or dunelizard with a decent set blasters, WO3, and about 2 or 3 consequtive hits.
TomoRainer does acutally draw up some very good points. Espeically with PvP. Right now all that mass, and hardpoints doesnt mean a whole lot when all you need to kill any Player reguardless of what they're flying is an A wing or dunelizard with a decent set blasters, WO3, and about 2 or 3 consequtive hits.
rexan
Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:54 pm
#17
blueoasis wrote:
TomoRainer wrote:
If you're talking PVP, there's no way I use the Krayt for this. I'd rather have a wingman than a gunner, and I'd rather have a tiny, nimble Dunelizard than a fat Krayt when I'm going up against another person.
You think the Krayt is fat? And you don't think it's nimble? I certainly don't feel like I'm flying in a large target when I fly my Krayt, especially not in comparison to the Rihx or the Firespray. And It may not be *as* nimble as the Dune, but it's DAMN nimble for a ship of that mass. I have zero complaints about the handling on the Krayt. Load up Engine Overload 3 or 4 and you really have no control limitations at all.
Now, the Krayt has on average 210k mass w/ 3 pilot guns, while the Dune has on average 85k mass w/ 2 pilot guns. This translates into a tremendous damage advantage for the Krayt. I can load this thing up with 3 guns in the the 3800 - 4,000 dmg range. I can also load up my shield with 2500 front/back hitpoints and 15 recharge rate.
Here is the problem. You cannot compair ships using EO 3 to others not using it. Have you trieddriving your Krayt without EO 3? Do you stillfeel the same way about it? I bet many people who initially complained about the b-wing were also not using EO3 on it.
And once people start PvPing, imagine a Tie Advanced or A-wing using EO 3. Talk about jolt andcafine all on one package.
twc
Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:44 pm
#18
I agree.
If they make one ship the top thing in pvp,then it will become the rifleman of space and no body will ever become the other 2.
Ducimus
Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:52 pm
#19
twc wrote:I agree.If they make one ship the top thing in pvp,....
See A wing, dunelizard, or a T/I or T/A for that.
TomoRainer
Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:23 pm
#20
I do use Engine Overload 3. I also primarily fly a Krayt for PVE, and while I don't have any complaints about its handling, I still use a Dunelizard whenever I go PVPing. I can fit a level 8 and level 7 blaster (both RE'd) in there and still have 45K mass left over for shields and engines etc. And that is more than enough firepower to kill any player in any ship in just a handful of shots. I'm not even that great at PVPing, but if I had my druthers, I'd face a Krayt over a Dunelizard (or A-Wing or Advanced) any day of the week--I'll have significantly better handling while presenting a significantly smaller target, and my weapons are, for all intents and purposes, just as effective as those on the Gunship.
As a recent poster pointed out, if you compare a Dunelizard and a Krayt without using EO3, the difference is even greater. Really, the engine commands are going a long way toward covering up the shortcomings of the bigger ships--which also see more benefit from weapons and capacitor overloads--so if you think the Krayt's overpowered, it's not necessarily due to the ship itself, but due to the space buffs you're loading on top of it. The confusion over just how good a given ship is makes up a large part of why I'm opposed to this suggestion: it doesn't take into account a huge amount of other variables as to why a ship performs the way it does.
Certainly when it comes to PVP the master-level ships are not the end-all and be-all, so to use PVP as a reason to change them is an argument that won't hold water.
As a recent poster pointed out, if you compare a Dunelizard and a Krayt without using EO3, the difference is even greater. Really, the engine commands are going a long way toward covering up the shortcomings of the bigger ships--which also see more benefit from weapons and capacitor overloads--so if you think the Krayt's overpowered, it's not necessarily due to the ship itself, but due to the space buffs you're loading on top of it. The confusion over just how good a given ship is makes up a large part of why I'm opposed to this suggestion: it doesn't take into account a huge amount of other variables as to why a ship performs the way it does.
Certainly when it comes to PVP the master-level ships are not the end-all and be-all, so to use PVP as a reason to change them is an argument that won't hold water.
Ezis
Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:14 pm
#21
My whole issue with JTL is the fact that just about everyone except for the imperials complain about their ships. The Imperials have the lowest mass ships of any of the 3 space factions. To top off this aspect, the Imperials have the toughest missions of all 3 factions, yet there are fewer imperials that complain than the rest of the factions.
If you go imperial, you have such tight mass allowances throughout your ships, and it really makes you consider what you can and are going to put in your ships. By doing this, you figure out exactly what your ship is capable of throughout each tier. I managed to make it through all of my missions with slightly above par weapons and lower end defenses, no bombs or missiles. When I went with the Oppressor when I finally hit Imperial ace, it was just like waking up next to a beautiful woman in bed. Suddenly, I was able to stick everything that I had thrown around trying to balance my tier 3/4 ships for a decent assault into one ship and god, it was finally nice. This with only 170k mass. Our bomber, which you can pick up at tier 3, has 190k mass. It handles much like the B-Wing, which means it's not practical for your standard missions. The oppressor is probably most like the Y-Wing LP and god, I can't see myself using anything less for solo pvp and the like. I have the thing stacked for offense and I am a dominating force in PvP. I've seen ace pilots that use this same ship after mastering Privateer factions and Rebel factions, which just had the worst time trying to get through Imperial Pilot. When she finished with the 3 lines in Imperial pilot, she went back to Rebel and just couldn't get over the fact of just how much easier it was to balance these ships.
I like the current system as-is, however I feel that the turret on the new Krayte gunship for the Privateer Aces should be limited to the rear 180 degrees like the rest of the 2-man ships. If you look at the ammount of mass you've got in your ships, and really crunch numbers on them, you'd be surprise just how much you can cram onto one. Keep in mind that you aren't supposed to have a fast/nimble ship which can deal out or take a huge ammount of damage, and you always have to keep in mind wheather or not you want to be able to deal the damage or take it, unless you're in the b-wing, which is designed to both give and receive damage, but is so sluggish in response that it isn't even funny.
All Factions have their perks in the space game. The Imperials just seem to see them moreso than others because we are forced to use our strengths and exploit the weaknesses of our enemies, which is easy once you know where you stand.
macfadyan
Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:39 pm
#22
Rhysen
Sr. Community Member
Posts: 258
Registered: 10-13-2004
Server: Chilastra
What needs to be done is simple. A dev at SOE needs to code up a really big crowbar and give one to every single person to use to pry themselves out of the box they're thinking in.
B-Wing has a role. It's a bomber. A really powerful bomber. Just because its in the Master box doesn't mean its role changes in the slightest. That's ground game mentality and pure ego talking. The mentality set by the ground game that the most powerful ability should be in the last box to train. And the ego that won't let a person fly anything below the Master box without feeling wrong.
I agree with this...perhaps they should swap which tier you get which ship in? I adore my Krayt...after the Rkkkkkyykkkrrkkyyy tier 4 thingy which moved...well..it moved like a brick in comparison. I think that for PA stuff, having a selection of ships for different roles is important. The Black Fleet have been working on co-ordinating different ships and their roles with others and each has their advantage and fits in well with the others.
However, ask the JEA..I talk nonsense nearly all the time....
Sr. Community Member
Posts: 258
Registered: 10-13-2004
Server: Chilastra
What needs to be done is simple. A dev at SOE needs to code up a really big crowbar and give one to every single person to use to pry themselves out of the box they're thinking in.
B-Wing has a role. It's a bomber. A really powerful bomber. Just because its in the Master box doesn't mean its role changes in the slightest. That's ground game mentality and pure ego talking. The mentality set by the ground game that the most powerful ability should be in the last box to train. And the ego that won't let a person fly anything below the Master box without feeling wrong.
I agree with this...perhaps they should swap which tier you get which ship in? I adore my Krayt...after the Rkkkkkyykkkrrkkyyy tier 4 thingy which moved...well..it moved like a brick in comparison. I think that for PA stuff, having a selection of ships for different roles is important. The Black Fleet have been working on co-ordinating different ships and their roles with others and each has their advantage and fits in well with the others.
However, ask the JEA..I talk nonsense nearly all the time....
Ezis
Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:22 pm
#23
macfadyan wrote:
Rhysen
Sr. Community Member
Posts: 258
Registered: 10-13-2004
Server: Chilastra
What needs to be done is simple. A dev at SOE needs to code up a really big crowbar and give one to every single person to use to pry themselves out of the box they're thinking in.
B-Wing has a role. It's a bomber. A really powerful bomber. Just because its in the Master box doesn't mean its role changes in the slightest. That's ground game mentality and pure ego talking. The mentality set by the ground game that the most powerful ability should be in the last box to train. And the ego that won't let a person fly anything below the Master box without feeling wrong.
I agree with this...perhaps they should swap which tier you get which ship in? I adore my Krayt...after the Rkkkkkyykkkrrkkyyy tier 4 thingy which moved...well..it moved like a brick in comparison. I think that for PA stuff, having a selection of ships for different roles is important. The Black Fleet have been working on co-ordinating different ships and their roles with others and each has their advantage and fits in well with the others.
However, ask the JEA..I talk nonsense nearly all the time....
more direct than what i said, but same point came across
Bkiddin
Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:47 pm
#24
if they make them similar then there will be no point in going the pilot proffesion you want, oh and all you imps complaining that you only have 2 or whatever cannons, well dont forget, you guys get an at-st, rebels dont, so this kinda makes up for it
Ezis
Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:58 pm
#25
Bkiddin wrote:
if they make them similar then there will be no point in going the pilot proffesion you want, oh and all you imps complaining that you only have 2 or whatever cannons, well dont forget, you guys get an at-st, rebels dont, so this kinda makes up for it
1) rebels aren't good enough to actually down us with 2 cannons, could you imagine how bad off they'd be if we had 3/4???
2) The ground game is completely different from the space game, don't play that card. Secondly, the AT-ST has been nerfed terribly.
S-1-l2-H-C
Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:31 am
#26
Ezis wrote:
Bkiddin wrote:if they make them similar then there will be no point in going the pilot proffesion you want, oh and all you imps complaining that you only have 2 or whatever cannons, well dont forget, you guys get an at-st, rebels dont, so this kinda makes up for it1) rebels aren't good enough to actually down us with 2 cannons, could you imagine how bad off they'd be if we had 3/4???
2) The ground game is completely different from the space game, don't play that card. Secondly, the AT-ST has been nerfed terribly.
i down imps just fine with 1 cannon. i dont care if you have 10, it wont do you any good if you cant hit me.
but seriously everyone keeps saying that the bwing is a bomber it should fly like one. well, so is the krayt and the tie-opp. while the bwing should handle worse since it has more mass/weapons, it shouldnt handle THAT much worse. and if it is going to handle like a nova, than where is the other 4760000 mass it should have. also i find it funny that a tie-opp FIGHTER holds more BOMBS than a bwing BOMBER.
no, they shouldnt make the ships the same, but they should make them ballanced. the bwing SUCKS at everything, its completely worthless. if they want it to handle that bad then give it even more mass/firepower.
right now the only decent option rebs have for heavy attack is the longprobe which is nothing compared to a tie-opp. the opp has THREE times the acceleration, one more missle slot, about 40% more pyr, is a much smaller target, and has the same mass