Pilot Archive

Thread: Profession-specific space content.

riotcontrol
Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:38 am
#14



MasterSad wrote:
It will be even worse for leveling jedi-pilots because some missions take 1,5 hours to complete.




What do you mean?



__
wieland argosy <gunslinger>
DeepFatFryer
Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:50 am
#15

General personal opinion:

Professions should be left on the ground. That is the realm of the RPG'er, where skillboxes and pressing a macro every couple of minutes to loop attacks is the name of the game.

Space content should be open for everyone. Want to smuggle through space? You should be able to do it. Of course, Smugglers would be able to smuggle on the ground too, and thus be able to take it one step further.

Space is where you can go in SWG to enjoy the game without any of this tedious skillbox buisness, in my opinion. You get ace, you have space content right in front of you. It dosen't matter what pilot tree you 'grinded', it's down to you and your intelligence - how clever you are with equipment, and your skills on the joystick/mouse.

Space desperatly needs content. What I do not think we want to do is limit that content to certain groups. If Mr Entertainer goes into space, he should be able to do anything (within the realms of space) that Mr Rifleman can do in his ship, provided they both put the same effort in in the realms of space.

What we have with JTL is the bones of the space game. We have ships. We have players. We have combat. What we need now, is proper conflict. We need to put the Star Wars in space. What we don't need, is to restrict anyone from this.

Just a breif personal splurge .



Crixx, Xicrx and Crixxorian Darkmoon - Rebellion, Corsec and Imperial Ace Pilots respectively.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
"If your pvp battles in space only last a few seconds YOU need practice. The game isn't broken, you just suck!" - Thik
"There's no sensation quite like learning to fly. Tounge-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I." -Pink Floyd
"One/two shot PvP is good because this is a game of EVASION. NOT ABSORBTION" - Big mean heartbreaker.
"Sod implementing anything half-decent, we have SWG to make! OLOL!"
"We already have expertise in space. It's called a brain." - Leaph.
rogue_eight
Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:15 am
#16

I can see where you're coming from on the whole everyone should be able to enjoy space content, but I think there is no way in the world that Smugglers would accept non-Smugglers being able to Smuggle in space.

I know that JTL is a separate entity in the way that the skill trees etc are constructed, and that gating content due to a ground element of your template might annoy some people, but trust me, there'd be a frothing gang of pitchfork wielding Smugglers baying for blood if the whole 'anyone can Smuggle' thing happens.

If it was a case of random 'scans' of ships/pilots to see who has contraband on board and non-Smuggler characters failing them miserably and getting jumped by the authorities, that's not so bad. But someone with absolutely no Smuggler skills should never have the opportunity to pick up a mission, whether in space or not, where they are given contraband to transport for a fee ie a Smuggling mission.

Contraband should only be available through these missions or from buying them from a Smuggler. If that was the case there really shouldn't be a problem with non-Smugglers in space running missions, as they couldn't get them - in the same way as there is a space mission from a station (I forget which) that you need to have Smuggler skills to access or the guy won't talk to you.

There's no real room for objection from say the Jedi that Smugglers would be using their skills in space. They wouldn't have any skills that have any meaningful effect in space beyond the fact that they have the opportunity to say dock with a station that non-Smugglers can't (unless grouped with one) and getting a mission to Smuggle contraband - in the same way that hopefully they could with NPC characters on the ground.

In all honesty, most other professions on the ground just don't translate into space. Pure combat classes don't, and despite what they might say, Jedi are the alpha class of pure combat professions.

I like the idea that certain professions on a PoB might be needed in a group to land on stations or disabled vettes - like a space GCW base takedown where you'll need an SL, Commando etc
DeepFatFryer
Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:23 am
#17

Basically, I do not think that ground professions should have bearing on your space skills. Someone should not be gated from an action because they do not play the ground game in a certain way.

Of course, perhaps Smuggling should be given some leeway in space. A mission could be triggered on the ground by a smuggler, and continued in space. But with added risk, naturally.

It's not simple, putting things in-game that everyone can agree on. What must be done is to find a comfortable balance for everything, and I appreciate Tomo's attempts to get as many different views as possible and to give them all to the developers.

I still stand by my thoughts that ground profession should have no bearing on space. But likewise, there needs to be more to do up there. If they were to add profession-based content, I wouldn't have a problem with it, definetly not (except if it were to disadvantage other players as pilots). But I personally think we need to add more stuff for everyone to be involved in first.

But yes, Smuggling should remain the realm of the smuggler, like you say. Could need some careful consideration by the developers to ensure they give players decent content, whilst not disadvantaging the others.



Crixx, Xicrx and Crixxorian Darkmoon - Rebellion, Corsec and Imperial Ace Pilots respectively.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
"If your pvp battles in space only last a few seconds YOU need practice. The game isn't broken, you just suck!" - Thik
"There's no sensation quite like learning to fly. Tounge-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I." -Pink Floyd
"One/two shot PvP is good because this is a game of EVASION. NOT ABSORBTION" - Big mean heartbreaker.
"Sod implementing anything half-decent, we have SWG to make! OLOL!"
"We already have expertise in space. It's called a brain." - Leaph.
LeaphChausew
Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:24 am
#18



I don't know how to answer this without going off at tangents with how GCW should be introduced into space and how it should have an effect on the ground game. I don't know how pheasable that'd be, but personally it is the thing I want most.


I believe it is almost a mandatory requirement that Space and the Ground need more to do with each other but without so much grinding. Pilots, on the whole are pilots and usually avoid the ground game for the most part. This has connotations of a distinct aversion to spending hours group grinding XP for any single profession which they'll probably never use anyway so that isn't the answer. I say this, because I hear rumours that Squad Leaders will be able to set group waypoints in space post Publish 24. Now that interests me since I am perma-overt in space (well as close as you can get to it anyway ) and usually grouped. Find friend is great, but being the idiosyncratic, slightly odd person I am, I do like to plan ahead and set a 'course' for my routine patrols. The group waypoint setting ability would come in very useful for me. Unfortunately, I have to spend time grinding monotomously on the ground first which for the sakes of that one skill...really doesn't feel worth it (even if I am doing so, regardless).


So I think skills for professions in space should be more quest based in order to obtain. Combat may be required for higher level skills (Yes, I do appreciate that you can't avoid grinding completely, but skills obtained through combat with higher lvl NPCs I would like to see being a little more special than a simple group waypoint setting skill). Anyway, the point is that I think the majority of skills (baring in mind these skills should be useful) should be obtainable by a fairly fresh, low lvl player (and thus those who choose Entertainer and Crafting professions).


I think too that in order to obtain skills which your profession can use in space, you need to have at least an 'entry level' understanding of space. My idea would be a space station for each faction where any profession could go and earn some skills/obtain missions (both ground based and spaced based) to earn these new skills. Also, I think a kind of 'quiz' would be useful and fun (especially from an mperial Roleplay perspective). E.G, You're on this space station, taking quests etc but in order to 'pass' a skill, you get quizzed on an aspect of space and your profession first. I.E, Droid commands


Example question:


What is the droid command which boosts engine speed and turn rate, but has adverse effects on the engine?


Now I know that was a simple one, but as I said...'entry level' questions.


As for actual skills, I think some skills should be universably obtainable among professions such as; Co-piloting POBs. How many times do you think "I know! Lets take up the Nova" or "Lets take up the YT" etc, and then you realise that getting a copilot is difficult since you require a master level skill of the same faction in the pilot profession and the fact that some servers are distinctly lacking in solo pilots, let alone entire crews? As far as piloting itself goes, it is common sense to keep that as a master skill, no doubts about it, however I think it may introduce more interest in space if those who prefer ground pounding could earn the right to become a co-pilot with some relevant training.


Another example; 'Chowboawka the wookie stripper* likes to spend her time in Mos Eisely Cantina dancing but although she isn't a pilot, would like to see the stars and get more involved but not just from the viewing deck of her Pimp's Luxury Yacht.'


So in order to achieve this, she'd visit a 'Light Stock Freighter Co-Pilot' trainer (and hell for cliche SWG sell out cases we could make the Freelance master trainer, Chewbacca and the Alliance specific one Nien Nub (sp?)) and this first trainer, like the pilot profession would first grant her a novice skill box which initially would be 'basic co-pilot commands'. This would consist of some core co-piloting skills and she'd recieve missions where a friend (dragging in other players here so everyone gets involved and it all feels more MMO'ish)would take her up in a combat ready POB and she'd have to complete different missions. Some would require her acting as a gunner, some would require onboard repairs etc. Finally, she'd recieve the 'Master Co-pilot' box which would grant some new skills (yet to be invented) as well as giving her access to the relevant commands that the main pilot is able to use. This would mean that different people of different factions could co pilot on a range of different faction POBs without having the ability to actually take control of them.


Hmm. Not sure if that was entirely what you were after Tomo, but its just a suggestion. Also, I'd have that skill so that even if you were a master/Ace pilot, you'd have to do the missions in order to become a fully adept co-pilot. You'd still be able to operate POBs specific to your faction as a copilot as you can now, but the versatility of adapting to other POBs and the other 'non pilot profession but space related and co pilot integral' skills wouldn't be available. They'd be what'd make this sub profession more worthwhile.


As for profession-specific content (the last suggestion I guess was profession 'generic'), I think first we need areas in space where ground inclined people can function. After this is achieved and we have a network of areas in space (which are dockable etc) along with capital ships, I think we'd be able to see where different professions could function better.


Asa sidenote and mainly from a roleplay perspective, I always had Leaph as a combat pilot. A -very- passionate combat pilot, but a side effect of being subjected to such high Gs and the stress of having pilots trying to kill him almost constantly (baring in mind that an active combat pilot in a small Navy such as the Alliance would be on duty more or less constantly. 'Going on leave' in my oppinion wouldn't exist in the mind of a dedicated fighter of oppression). The point is though, it got me thinking. Taking this into account, I was thinking 'Hey, what about for every hour spent overt in space, a kind of 'Space sickness or fatigue' starts to set in' (tell me if I'm going off on one too much here). The point is; this effect wouldn't effect overall health (as in the red bar) and wouldn't effect your performance in space. What it would do, is drain modifiers like mental awareness/quickness etc which'd take effect on the ground. This might bring in profession-specific content for Doctors which'd be...treating Starfighter pilots. Also, the kind of cool aspect to this would be..the more fatigued your pilot is which would only be incurred from going overt (not by flying in Deep Space but otherwise covert) the more respect you'd potentially generate since a completely physically exhausted, but not dead combat pilot could genuinly say 'Yup, I'm fricken' Knackered but at least I can handle myself in a furball" .


The only downside to that idea is I know it'd get old pretty quickly. Having to find a doctor every time I landed would become laborious and it harks back to the days of when we got wounds from dying in pvp I guess. The advantages over that would be, if you did die, you wouldn't lose health over all and you wouldn't have to spend hours gawping at an entertainer in order to fix yourself. I think, if this did take effect, more doctors would do the associated missions learning how to treat space sickness and that when it actually came to treatng a pilot in actual game play, amaster Doctor could rectify it in a matter of moments. Another idea would be that Doctors trained in the arts of healing the space fatigue condition could make pills/other remedies which Pilots could buy and keep in their inventory. When they land, all they'd have to do is take one and it'd help them without them having to wait for a doctor to actually be present. In fact, the pill idea might work since it'd mean the actual effects of space fatigue wouldn't hinder a pilot who had a stock of the remedy at all but it would give more relevance to doctors which sadly I'm seeing fewer and fewer of as of late. (You know its a bad thing when a profession which you'd expect to be thriving is outpopulated by Jedi who too...can cure youa lot of the time.)


I'll stop there. Thoughts?


* I'll leave you to figure out the logistics of that one...

Message Edited by LeaphChausew on 10-12-2005 05:28 AM

Tarnak_Archvold
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:05 am
#19

I am positive on ground-profession specific contend in space. I can easily se smugglers getting certified for a special "hidden cargo hold", that allow smuggler missions, or a BH getting certified for a missile launcher that fires tracking droids so they can find thair mark in space. On the same note Artisans could get certified for special mining equipment, or something like that or perhaps ships that can repair player crafts, and restock them with missiles and countermeasures.

Even if no special equipment was needed, I can se flavoured duty missions available to only specific ground professions, but in this case preferable ones that would take a group to complete. That way the smuggler could take smuggling style mission for a group to have fun with, and so on. Different professions would have different missions they could add content to a group.
That way it would add a litter more incentive to group up, in order to both experience your own professions content, and to experience other professions contend.

As for the "problem" with not everyone having to have JTL. As long as it is optional contend, I do not se a problem. BH would still be able to get thair mark on the ground even if they did not have JTL or could not fly even if they had it. And if the same would hold true for other ground-profession specific contend.
A good example is the ranger only quest on Kashyyyr, for the Kashyyyr camo kit. Rangers with out RotW cannot do that quest, but neither are they required to in order to enjoy the part of the game they do have access to.




"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.
BHM
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:11 am
#20






TomoRainer wrote:
I'd just like to see a little discussion, brainstorming, and general airing of opinions about ground profession-specific space content. The obvious areas are bounties in space, smuggling, and integrating the new ranger concept, but I'm sure there's room for other professions as well.

For instance, is it troubling that the recent smuggler concept has no plans for space missions? Or that BHs can't hunt marks in space? Or do you think space should be separate, and that content for ground professions isn't important, or at least not in relation to the greater need for general post-master JTL content? Do you think there's room for both, or that there are ways to include the wider pilot community in gameplay that may have at its center BHs, smugglers, rangers, etc.? Are there ways to involve the ground game that take into account our place as pilots, or should our main focus be placed squarely on an independent JTL?

I'm just looking for open discussion here, any opinions or tangents are fine.





-Smugglers should be allowed to smuggle, especially in space.


-BHs should be able to hunt something in space: 1)npcs.. would be fun but not really challenging.. waste of time imo 2)Jedi: but since jedi skill don't work in space, if would probably be unfair to make em lose exp upon space deaths. And if there's no penalty, people WILL exploit the payout.


3)Smugglers! A good option might be to make BHs interact with smugglers IF they have space smuggling. Something like a smuggler must smuggle his cargo somewhere and, when he is traveling, his name is on the terminals. The smuggling mission would have to last for a while tho (like an escort maybe?), so that it would be possible to get a bounty, launch in space and still find the smuggler in space and have a chance to engage him. Both smuggling and BH space missions should be rewarding and they should count as PvP kills and NOT induce decay to ships.


-Another class that might be involved is Ranger. I don't think that rangers should be space cowboys or - like with the upcoming ranger revamp - stealth killers and bombers.. but since they will be able to steal stuff from smugglers (as far as I know), perhaps the Devs will be able to make some space content for them (or a Smuggler/BH/Ranger interactive system)


I'd say all the professions should have professions specific missions, but to be honest I can't think of specific content for professions such as doctor, rifleman, pikeman etc..





Andros Celsum ~ Master Bounty Hunter ~ "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both."

CuchulainnDarklight
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:12 am
#21

As a Jebay I can say that I would love to be hunted in Space. Bring it on I say! The more JSFs Ireduce to their component atoms the more happy I am!Maybe a suitable caveat would have to be that you (the jebay) have trained to, say, 2222 pilot and when the BH comes within 1000m he becomes attackable by you. Of course, no Jedi skills in space, except the one in the movies, where you can switch off your targeting computer.




...has mastered the Pilot profession
The above post does not represent the views or beliefs of the poster, his countrymen or government, or anyone he remotely knows or has heard of, though in a perfect world he would be the government and his word law. The above post is also wholly fictitious, and any resemblance to any persons or entities living or dead is purely coincidental. Unless, it sounds really cool, in which case its all true, really.
Use the test centre avatar if you have any issues with the NGE or SOE, like me!
CuchulainnDarklight
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:36 am
#22

Oh, I thought of a second Jedi space skill, the one where you wear a helmet with the blast shield down, that would be a good one!




...has mastered the Pilot profession
The above post does not represent the views or beliefs of the poster, his countrymen or government, or anyone he remotely knows or has heard of, though in a perfect world he would be the government and his word law. The above post is also wholly fictitious, and any resemblance to any persons or entities living or dead is purely coincidental. Unless, it sounds really cool, in which case its all true, really.
Use the test centre avatar if you have any issues with the NGE or SOE, like me!
mskroch
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:44 am
#23

I think greater integration between space and ground is an excellent idea. This includes smuggling, exploring, and bounty's.


Someone made the point about people not being skilled in space so there shouldn't be space bounty's. To me that is okay and the way it should be. There is a reason Luke and Ben found Han for transport. They new he would get them there safely. People with either train up or travel on board a multi-passenger ship.


I think integrating space and ground more is key to making this game more fun and involved.



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MasterSad
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:45 am
#24



riotcontrol wrote:


MasterSad wrote:
It will be even worse for leveling jedi-pilots because some missions take 1,5 hours to complete.




What do you mean?



It means that for some jedi-pilots there will be no way to level in pilot profession. Similar situation happend when Kessel was pvp zone and there were big flame wars on forums because of that which resulted in nerfing Kessel.



Sad
Imperial Pilot Ace, Sergeant

JSF has only one weakness - its pilot...
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Narrganocca
Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:51 am
#25

BRING THE GALACTIC CIVIL WAR TO SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


there are hundredsd of threads on this. I think a very easy implentation would be to make some sort of PvP capture the flag in space, a few sectors get a couple PvP defended space stations...maybe make the station kind of like a dungeon, gotta disable and reprogram it for your side. Then the key is to have the side that holds the space zone influence recieve more faction pts for factional missions, or receive small bonuses in group cmbat, something liek that





Fear leads to anger, anger leads to stress
stress leads to doobies, doobies lead to twinkies
MachineZed
Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:12 am
#26

Just an idea for DEs, as theres already Droid Fighters up there, any way to make it like the Kash space, when we can open up a channel and talk with them, maybe receive a mission.


I mean its bad enough I need to protect myself from them, I would really love to make them. Even the Trade Fed Zealots on the ground I would feel bad running away from them, but they always shoot first, and never listen to what I say.



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