Pilot Archive
Thread: Jedi SF, ARC-170, and Grevious SF
Arcrin wrote:
I know a lot of people have posted about how they cannot use these new ships due to imp/reb only quests and how it has been explained different ways. This usually boils down to the fact that the JSF was Anakin/Darth V's, and is therefore imp. The Arc was Republic, and therefore Rebel, and the Grevious was sorta third-party, and therefore for anyone (minus bug probs, of course). However, after seeing Episode III, this make almost no sense at all. For those who havent seen the movie, there are a few small spoilers ahead, so don't read if you don't want to know. I used the common names forthe shipsrather than technical in the hope of avoiding confusion.
Jedi Star Fighter
The Jedi (and others,not seen in film)had many of these, Obi-Wan used a couple different ones and since other jedi were not on Coruscant during the "retirement" of those jedi in the temple, it can be assumed that they were also using at least a few jedi still have them. Just because Anakin had, and kept,one doesn't meanall JSFsshould be imp since he turned imp. One last note on this, he never recovers his after the final battle, so where did the one he gives out (claiming it as his old one)come from?
ARC-170
This was the Clone trooper fighter in the film. So, umm, the clones all turned Imperial, and therefore all the ships theyhad in their inventorydid as well. It makes no sense to make this a Rebel only ship since what later become stormtroopers used them. There were many of these in themovie, so it is not hard to believe that different groupscould aquire them.However, when compared with the JSF argument, it would make much more sense for these two ship quests to be reversed.
Grevious Star Fighter
The only one that I clearly remember seeing was piloted by. . . Obi-Wan. Not by any other imperial forces, not by any Republic Clones, just one jedi.The space battles all showed droid fighters, notthese. So. . .since this one is available to all in SWG, why not the others like this since they are seen havinga much more diverse user base?
These ships were introduced solely because of EpIII. Also, the expansion made no note of the fact that these were going to be only usable by specific factions. This, along with the lovely pictures and descriptionsthat were provided on the RotW site could have easily misled many who purchased the expansion with the hopes of piloting (or building for that matter) a craft that they would have to sacrifice much in game work to get to use (ex: drop rep/imp ground faction, lose reb/imp pilot because of this). Devs, this makes no sense (especially since you dont lose the ability to pilot it when switching factions, unlike any other skill).Anyways, I just felt the need to post this. Ignore me, flame me, whatever.
Hey now, they made huge advancements with the foils... They actually have a function on the X-wing.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
1. The 3 man, manouverable ARC becomes the 1 man less manouverable X which loses speed when foils are open unlike its predecessor.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
jascenjerreck wrote:
Hopefully, I can clear things up for ya.....
Simply,
ARC 170 = Precursor to the x-wing (rebel), therefore, rebel quest
Jedi SF = Precursor to the Twin Ion Engine, or (TIE) fighter, therefore imp quest
in case anyone needs a little backing up....
The company who makes the ARC makes the xwing, that I know for sure. Besides, you can see the s-foils open the same...if you really look atit you can see the similarities also. The JSF as you can see how their s-foils open up to make it look more like a TIE...as well, theFRONT of the cockpit of the JSF looks exactly like thefront of the TIE cockpit , as far as how the panes of the window in front are concerned...
Whether it makes sense to you or not, this is their reasoning....go figure...i kinda wish anyone could get these new starfighters, as NIETHER of them are really arent rebel OR imp
following your reasoning all the ROTW starships are made by companies who went on to make less capable versions of them 30 years later.
1. The 3 man, manouverable ARC becomes the 1 man less manouverable X which loses speed when foils are open unlike its predecessor.
2. The High mass, supreme manouverabiltt JSF becomes the less powerful, less manouverable, bigger fighter with less mass!
Am I the only one who sees the inherent stupidy present in these30 yr oldships being better than their brand new counterparts!
The ships you get in RotW are supposed to be sooped up versions of each...at least I know the ARC is, I don't know about the JSF cause I'm not imp and haven't done the mission...I believe this to be the reason...but if this wasn't the case... :
jascenjerreck wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
jascenjerreck wrote:
Hopefully, I can clear things up for ya.....
Simply,
ARC 170 = Precursor to the x-wing (rebel), therefore, rebel quest
Jedi SF = Precursor to the Twin Ion Engine, or (TIE) fighter, therefore imp quest
in case anyone needs a little backing up....
The company who makes the ARC makes the xwing, that I know for sure. Besides, you can see the s-foils open the same...if you really look atit you can see the similarities also. The JSF as you can see how their s-foils open up to make it look more like a TIE...as well, theFRONT of the cockpit of the JSF looks exactly like thefront of the TIE cockpit , as far as how the panes of the window in front are concerned...
Whether it makes sense to you or not, this is their reasoning....go figure...i kinda wish anyone could get these new starfighters, as NIETHER of them are really arent rebel OR imp
following your reasoning all the ROTW starships are made by companies who went on to make less capable versions of them 30 years later.
1. The 3 man, manouverable ARC becomes the 1 man less manouverable X which loses speed when foils are open unlike its predecessor.
2. The High mass, supreme manouverabiltt JSF becomes the less powerful, less manouverable, bigger fighter with less mass!
Am I the only one who sees the inherent stupidy present in these30 yr oldships being better than their brand new counterparts!
The ships you get in RotW are supposed to be sooped up versions of each...at least I know the ARC is, I don't know about the JSF cause I'm not imp and haven't done the mission...I believe this to be the reason...but if this wasn't the case... :
There are a couple of reasons whyI can think of as to why companies would be making less powerful ships...especially the empire...
-more powerful in quantity, rather than quality...more ships, at less the cost...
-as well, with the tyranny of the empire, I'm sure that the galactic economy has taken quite a hit...therefore, less quality in the starfighters....it's kind of like the "mad max" theory...when the galaxy got screwed by the empire, so did the companies that made the star fighters, not allowing them to produce higher quality items becuase of the low income buyers that couldn't afford them...
Of course, this could all be BS, I'M JUST PLAYIN DEVILS ADVOCATE, for arguments sake...
I suppose you could also argue that some cars made 30 years ago are better. . . with a little work (i.e. Mustangs as well as many older muscle cars)
Acrin, good post. However, I don't think you went far enough in your thinking and rationale. For example, the JSF issue. It was never seen at all in ep 4 to 6. Why? Well, rationale thinking would presume that they were destroyed, like Vader had thought he had done to all the Jedi, save for the Emperor. At the start of ep4, there are only 5 Jedi left in existance, and 2 of them didn't know they were Jedi. (Keep in mind, Jedi are BORN that way, hehe.) Of the 5, only 2 know they existed.... Vader and the Emperor. All others were thought to have been exterminated in the great jedi holocaust. Even Vader didn't know that Obi-Wan was even alive. So, how could he have known Luke and Leia were still alive? To believe the contrary, would be to diagnose Vader with paranoid-schizophrenia. Which he could have been.But in Ep4, the Alliance was on the ropes, it was the high-water mark for the Empire in all it's glory. Victory was a long forgone conclusion for everyone concerned, and at best,everyone else (alliance included) was fightingfor table scraps and a seat of power in the Imperial regime.That would change, as we all witness play out from 4 to 6.
Message Edited by PaleGT1 on 05-20-2005 06:29 PM
Unlike the standard TIE/ln starfighter, the x1 had a much more robust spaceframe, with reinforced durasteel-alloy hull, providing greater protection from enemy fire and stability during strenuous maneuvers. Also, abandoning previous Imperial design policies, considerable resources were spent to make the TIE Advanced hyperspace-capable, and the fighter was even equipped with deflector shields.
In the end, the TIE Advanced proved too expensive to mass-produce. It continued to be an elite fighter craft assigned only to certain squadrons. Imperial Navy scuttlebutt has it that the higher echelons of officers were wary at promoting a starfighter with shields and hyperdrive, since it would undermine the use of capital ships as launch platforms. Rather than see the capital ship budget slashed, the TIE Advanced was sacrificed instead
FataIity wrote:
Vader didn't use it because the TIE Advanced was soposed to be BETTER.
I dunno. I think the fact that he grew a foot in height and wasn't quite as thin as he used to be may have preclued him getting in such a small ship.
Seriously, it's not that big a deal. I wanted an ARC-170. I won't be getting it because I won't drop my pilot and ground faction just to get it. I'll just have to get it for my other character. No biggie.
Arcrin wrote:
I suppose you could also argue that some cars made 30 years ago are better. . . with a little work (i.e. Mustangs as well as many older muscle cars)
jascenjerreck wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
jascenjerreck wrote:
Hopefully, I can clear things up for ya.....
Simply,
ARC 170 = Precursor to the x-wing (rebel), therefore, rebel quest
Jedi SF = Precursor to the Twin Ion Engine, or (TIE) fighter, therefore imp quest
in case anyone needs a little backing up....
The company who makes the ARC makes the xwing, that I know for sure. Besides, you can see the s-foils open the same...if you really look atit you can see the similarities also. The JSF as you can see how their s-foils open up to make it look more like a TIE...as well, theFRONT of the cockpit of the JSF looks exactly like thefront of the TIE cockpit , as far as how the panes of the window in front are concerned...
Whether it makes sense to you or not, this is their reasoning....go figure...i kinda wish anyone could get these new starfighters, as NIETHER of them are really arent rebel OR imp
following your reasoning all the ROTW starships are made by companies who went on to make less capable versions of them 30 years later.
1. The 3 man, manouverable ARC becomes the 1 man less manouverable X which loses speed when foils are open unlike its predecessor.
2. The High mass, supreme manouverabiltt JSF becomes the less powerful, less manouverable, bigger fighter with less mass!
Am I the only one who sees the inherent stupidy present in these30 yr oldships being better than their brand new counterparts!
The ships you get in RotW are supposed to be sooped up versions of each...at least I know the ARC is, I don't know about the JSF cause I'm not imp and haven't done the mission...I believe this to be the reason...but if this wasn't the case... :
There are a couple of reasons whyI can think of as to why companies would be making less powerful ships...especially the empire...
-more powerful in quantity, rather than quality...more ships, at less the cost...
-as well, with the tyranny of the empire, I'm sure that the galactic economy has taken quite a hit...therefore, less quality in the starfighters....it's kind of like the "mad max" theory...when the galaxy got screwed by the empire, so did the companies that made the star fighters, not allowing them to produce higher quality items becuase of the low income buyers that couldn't afford them...
Of course, this could all be BS, I'M JUST PLAYIN DEVILS ADVOCATE, for arguments sake...
/nod
junk218 wrote:
do you see obi wan? get quests from him?
maybe some other jedi from the clone wars era?
wait they're dead.
only vader is alive from then.
now my question is why is the JSF better than the TIE advanced since the advanced is newer and used by vader in ANH.
Arcrin wrote:
ARC-170
This was the Clone trooper fighter in the film. So, umm, the clones all turned Imperial, and therefore all the ships theyhad in their inventorydid as well. It makes no sense to make this a Rebel only ship since what later become stormtroopers used them. There were many of these in themovie, so it is not hard to believe that different groupscould aquire them.However, when compared with the JSF argument, it would make much more sense for these two ship quests to be reversed.
I know perfectly well why the ARC was given to the rebels. MASS. If you handed that ship over to the Imps, they would have had to severely limit the mass, or you'd have Imps flying nothing but ARCs. Mass is what screws Imperials. The thinking behind it is sound, provided you have a massive amount of Imps "swarming" in their TIEs, but since that's clearly not the case, this is imbalancing. Make all ships of all factions in each tier the same mass, and similar handling rates.
Mox Shehalis
SharkBoy007 wrote:
I know perfectly well why the ARC was given to the rebels. MASS. If you handed that ship over to the Imps, they would have had to severely limit the mass, or you'd have Imps flying nothing but ARCs. Mass is what screws Imperials. The thinking behind it is sound, provided you have a massive amount of Imps "swarming" in their TIEs, but since that's clearly not the case, this is imbalancing. Make all ships of all factions in each tier the same mass, and similar handling rates.
And all factions should be able to get and fly these ships, without having to sacrifice the hard work and effort they put into getting where they're at in their particular faction. Especially since these ships are REBUPLIC ships, NOT Empire-era ships (and yes, you can argue that they are, the whole end of RotS, but work with me here).