Pilot Archive
Thread: Petition: Make PvP Death in Space free of Decay
AlmightyBob wrote:
KaylBreinhar wrote:
Translation: "I just found out how much faction I can farm in space, and I want all the negative aspects surrounding the farming of it (i.e. getting popped by an overt) removed."
Hardly, I've known about faction farming for a long time, I just stick to doing it in Deep Space (I fly a Bwing by the way). My problem is with having to stick to one system when looking to PvP, sure limping back to Deep Space is doable, butwhy not just streamline the whole process?
i would tend to agree with the original poster kayl, i think you are jumping to conclusions. i can think of many valid reasons to do away with normal space decay, the #1 being encouraging your average player intimidated by DS, and non master players, to PVP. experience in setting up a PVP event on my own server has taught me that the overwealming majority of players who like space, and like PVP, shun it in normal zones due to decay. even after it is explained to them how absurd and ineffectual decay really is they still avoid it. why? who knows. i can't explain it. most players will replace a component before they decay it to the point where they can't overcharge it, most players use crappy armor. i don't understand the rationale at all, but regardless, education doesn't help.
now, the only reason not to have decay-less PVP in normal space is to protect the SWs. but it's a myth that the shipwright's business would be hurt by a lack of decay. it wouldn't. there's not a shipwright on any server that makes his business off repeat business on a single part. not one. shipwrights make their business off customers trying out new parts and ditching old ones, and the grind to master when dealing with the intricicies of reverse engineering prove to be too much for most new pilots to handle. the rest of the shipwrights business comes from reverse engineering and perhaps a TINY percentage of repeat business on armor. this is not due to a decayless deep space either, despite what some vocal and shady shipwrights will tell you. you can fly 99.9% of your time in normal space post master for a year and still never need to buy a new part due to decay EVEN IF YOU NEVER GO TO DS TO REPAIR.
decay isn't fun. pilots who don't have fun quit. if pilots quit, shipwrights are a useless profession. get rid of decay and find another way to keep SW's happy. it's a stupid mechanic and it doesn't do anything anyway but intimidate pilots.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
When the damage is permanent and aquires over time (which is really bad on reward ships/components/RE stuff), you have people who are afraid to PvP. You can argue for PvP decay all you want, but it was eventually taken out of the ground game simply because it discouraged PvP so much.
The price for losing is already several minutes of downtime while you bring back up droid commands and traveling/loading - which is rather punishing as is (the droid command reloading isn't so bad if you have a pre-nerf interface, but that's a balance issue more than a design one).
Typical Dev ignorance of the concept of "fine tuning". No decay is just as unhealthy as "too much" decay. 10% per death in space is horrendous. If anything like that were to be implemented in the ground game, the playerbase would be utterly up in arms over it. Even as it is, 1%-5% HURTS, and our fighter components don't have anywhere near as much condtion as items on the ground.
Raptor2k1 wrote:When the damage is permanent and aquires over time (which is really bad on reward ships/components/RE stuff), you have people who are afraid to PvP. You can argue for PvP decay all you want, but it was eventually taken out of the ground game simply because it discouraged PvP so much.The price for losing is already several minutes of downtime while you bring back up droid commands and traveling/loading - which is rather punishing as is (the droid command reloading isn't so bad if you have a pre-nerf interface, but that's a balance issue more than a design one).
Well if balance was an issue...then if everyone lost their uber parts and had to use not so uber parts....wouldn't it still be balanced?
I believe one time rewards have only one purpose. They were introduced to the ground game to allow the redistribution of wealth on the servers. Those with money would buy things to get "a complete set" of something. Pogs, Pokemon, Beanie Babys...Holograms, QID Reactors, Actis, Belbulab...it's all the same.
In space things work a bit differently and unfortunately, people have become so reliant on using these rewards to give them an an illusion of an extra edge in space combat.
As for me....it doesn't matter if my stuff decays in space or on the ground...as long as i'm having fun in the process. That and the fact that all of the stuff I usually us is replaceable...the one time stuff stays in my house a decoration.
balance is not an issue. anyone who tells you it is is a complete fool.
i have a 5k gun. by the time it decays to uselessness (never since it won't go below 10/10 anyway) i will have 3 more 5k guns. the same goes for my engine. by the time it is usless i will have aquired enough parts to make a better one.
decay doesn't hurt the people at the top of the food chain, it hurts the people at the bottom and the middle.
furthermore, shipwright revenues aren't an issue either, i wish people would stop saying they were.
find me a person who does PVE in a normal space zone (kash doens't count, this arguement about shipwright revenues was around long before kash was) and has died enough so that he NEEDS to replace a component.
ill find you a person who is going to quit JTL very soon because it's too difficult. shipwrights saying they lost revenue because of DS or anything else are fooling themselves. they lose revenue because their business model is based on armorsmiths/weaponsmiths of the past and because their parts cost too much to make. not because of the mechanics of space.
JanuHull wrote:
Typical Dev ignorance of the concept of "fine tuning". No decay is just as unhealthy as "too much" decay. 10% per death in space is horrendous. If anything like that were to be implemented in the ground game, the playerbase would be utterly up in arms over it. Even as it is, 1%-5% HURTS, and our fighter components don't have anywhere near as much condtion as items on the ground.
Just a few numbers to mull over with decay values.
Using the following formula for decay rate: New Value = floor(Old Value-Old Value X decay percent,1)
where floor(##,1) just rounds fractions to the nearest whole number.
To get40 armour on a component that originally starts of with 500 armour points, an item will have to be COMPLETELY destroyed a certain number of times. I chose 40 as a final value because all Droid commands should work at that value with out reducing the efficiency of the component.
10% decay: 23 times
5% decay: 48 times
4% decay: 56 times
3% decay: 75 times
2% decay: 106 times
1% decay: 188 times
Ground PvP death does not incur the cloning decay penalty to items, however the items used during the PvP combat, such as armour and weapons, still incur condition loss. Which in turn suffer decay upon using a repair kit to restore condition. Now...if let say they introduce a "repair kit" to space like they have on the ground where there is a chance repair can be flubbed a component can be destroyed....er...let not go there...to horrendous to think about...
Message Edited by Slysix on 08-25-2005 10:32 PM
Slysix wrote:
JanuHull wrote:
Typical Dev ignorance of the concept of "fine tuning". No decay is just as unhealthy as "too much" decay. 10% per death in space is horrendous. If anything like that were to be implemented in the ground game, the playerbase would be utterly up in arms over it. Even as it is, 1%-5% HURTS, and our fighter components don't have anywhere near as much condtion as items on the ground.
Just a few numbers to mull over with decay values.
Using the following formula for decay rate: New Value = floor(Old Value-Old Value X decay percent,1)
where floor(##,1) just rounds fractions to the nearest whole number.
To get40 armour on a component that originally starts of with 500 armour points, an item will have to be COMPLETELY destroyed a certain number of times. I chose 40 as a final value because all Droid commands should work at that value with out reducing the efficiency of the component.
10% decay: 23 times
5% decay: 48 times
4% decay: 56 times
3% decay: 75 times
2% decay: 106 times
1% decay: 188 times
Ground PvP death does not incur the cloning decay penalty to items, however the items used during the PvP combat, such as armour and weapons, still incur condition loss. Which in turn suffer decay upon using a repair kit to restore condition. Now...if let say they introduce a "repair kit" to space like they have on the ground where there is a chance repair can be flubbed a component can be destroyed....er...let not go there...to horrendous to think about...
Message Edited by Slysix on 08-25-2005 10:32 PM
JanuHull wrote:Hm... Interesting. Something to keep in mind. Items decay when repaired, even if not completely destroyed. So on a per component basis, its not the number of times its disabled, its the number of times its repaired. You've got four key components that will suffer decay every time you launch, if you use droid programs. Even more if your ship has more than one weapon.That's costly.
I just used complete destruction as a base since repairs are based on percentage of damage repaired...
For example: if you repair 50 points of armour damage to a component you will suffer a 5 point decay.
A repair of 30 points will suffer a decay of 3 points. So the number of times you repair does not really affect the decay...just the amount damage you repair. Also less then 10 point repairs do not incur decay thus actually extending the the life of components that are maintained on a regular basis.
I'm not to worried about Droid commands decay cuz of the station fix workaround. I'm more concerned with combat damage decay...and in space minor combat damage is usually accompanied shortly there after by total component destruction.
AlmightyBob wrote:
Well, that's it. Comeon, no decay when you die in PvP on the ground, why not up in space...
You have got to be joking right? Isnt it bad enough that you no longer get wounds and BF in space that you want this. Things are more fun to accomplish when there is a downside to failing. Life does not have a reset switch like Pogo the Monkey you know!
Plus PvP in space IS decay free! Unless your talking about PvP outside DS, which begs the question, if you dont want decay, then why dont you just NOT go overt!
a deterrant decay is not. don't act like it's a "downside".
all decay does is this:
"hey meeuki, want to go do some PVP outside of the naboo station?"
"sure let me go get my junk ship!"
OR
"hey meeuki want to do some dueling?"
"nah man i don't want to get decay"
other than that it's 100% useless, it's a slight bother in the back of my mind during the 2 or 3 places outside of DS that can be dangerous, an incentive for me to use my cheater rotw ships instead. let's not fool ourselves and act like it's a mechanic that does anything people, the only thing it does is make pilots feel crappy and give whiners who hate the fact that people have better equipment than them false hope. it's a fable mean to appease the small section of shipwrights fooling themselves into thinking it helps them get cash.
don't stick up for it. it's a stupid mechanic that is responsible for sucking some of the fun out of this game.
it's a failed raph koster concoction. it should be put to death along with all the other failed mechanisms that have been tossed out of SWG lately.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 08-25-2005 11:55 PM
For those that don't want Decay, this discussion may be moot, but for those that want Decay-free PvP, I thin kyou have to come up with a new way of handling Decay.
The most obvious solution to me is to handle Decay on the Damage side and make all repairs Decay free. Using 10% would mean that the 1st point of Damage causes Decay and the next 9 do not. It would remove the limp-to-DS-to-repair trips as well as the 1/4-1/4-1/2-Full repairs at Stations. That also seems like the only point the system will be able to differentiate between Damage types.
Due to the lack of work arounds, I'd imagine an outcry over a change like that, but I think that it would more closely associate the use of a component to that component's eventually Decay into uselessness.
Shona