Pilot Archive
Thread: Anyone else have a love/hate thing for SW's?
Ducimus wrote:
Hhaha they come out of the woodwork like rabid chipmonks;
1.) Im not paying your way to master SW. I dont care how much you put into mastering a profession, that is NOT my problem. My problem is the part or ship in question that i want to purchase, not how much you want to make up for whatever it is you lost in grinding skill boxes. Take your problems out on my credits in bank and we don't do buisness, plain and simple.
2.) Everyone knows chasis/parts cost resources. But theres a big difference between
2A.) the SW who says, 750K for a 235K mass ship and 1 mill for a 240K mass ship
and
2B.) the SW who says, all ships , 5 CPU, no chassis is undermassed. 240K ship for 760K. thats fair in my book.
The problem with SW's in general is theres some good ones, and then theres a whole lot of bad ones that give the profession a bad name, and its all to easy to paint the whole profession with a big wide brush.
Final thought:
If your running a shop, a buisness, theres an old saying, "the customer is always right". Not every pilot is going to kiss your feet and beg you to make them something. Its a free and compedative market, and if i feel your trying to stiff me, ill take my buisness elswhere. Word of mouth goes a long way, and when other pilots ask me for " a good SW", i have datapad with a few waypoints that i email them. Im pretty sure they do the same.
Didn't 1* your first post but did this one. If grind quality steel is selling for 3 cpu, how much do you think high quality steel is selling for?
I don't ask that anyone pays my bills for grinding. I grind in practice mode rather than put grind quality chassis on my vendor. BUT with only 5 lots availible for harvesters (-2 for house/shop, -1 for factory, -1 for fusion reactor for harvester power, -1 for Nova Courier), I do have to buy resources. And I will pass thecost of those resources to the customer in the price. Along with my fee for making it. So when I pay 7.5 cpu for steel, you pay 7.5 cpu + fee for steel when you buy a product from me. When I pay 10 cpu for high quality High Grade Polymetric Radioactive to make missiles, you pay 10 cpu + fee for missiles made with high quality High Grade Polymetric Radioactives. And my fee is whatever I feel my time is worth, which isn't usually onerous unless someone contacts me for a custom job (as they usually catch me in the middle of doing something else).
If you want 'free' ships and components, master Shipwright and make them yourself. But don't expect people who are paying for the resources to make the products, not to grind Shipwright, to eat the costs because you're GREEDY.
I think in threory your absolutly right in the way you charge. I have never asked for anything for free. The only problem iever had was if one person can charge 1000 for one thing and make a rpfitand another person charge 100,000 for the same thing is wrong. i dont have a problem with passing the buck on prices like that but when you get out of hand people have problems with them. personly like i have stated before i have never ever had a problem with ship prices because of the resource needed to make them. I have a problem with people makeing 4x to 10x the profit off the causal player. Dang it i am rambleing again and probaly not makeing since lol.
Rhysen wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
Hhaha they come out of the woodwork like rabid chipmonks;
1.) Im not paying your way to master SW. I dont care how much you put into mastering a profession, that is NOT my problem. My problem is the part or ship in question that i want to purchase, not how much you want to make up for whatever it is you lost in grinding skill boxes. Take your problems out on my credits in bank and we don't do buisness, plain and simple.
2.) Everyone knows chasis/parts cost resources. But theres a big difference between
2A.) the SW who says, 750K for a 235K mass ship and 1 mill for a 240K mass ship
and
2B.) the SW who says, all ships , 5 CPU, no chassis is undermassed. 240K ship for 760K. thats fair in my book.
The problem with SW's in general is theres some good ones, and then theres a whole lot of bad ones that give the profession a bad name, and its all to easy to paint the whole profession with a big wide brush.
Final thought:
If your running a shop, a buisness, theres an old saying, "the customer is always right". Not every pilot is going to kiss your feet and beg you to make them something. Its a free and compedative market, and if i feel your trying to stiff me, ill take my buisness elswhere. Word of mouth goes a long way, and when other pilots ask me for " a good SW", i have datapad with a few waypoints that i email them. Im pretty sure they do the same.
Didn't 1* your first post but did this one. If grind quality steel is selling for 3 cpu, how much do you think high quality steel is selling for?
I don't ask that anyone pays my bills for grinding. I grind in practice mode rather than put grind quality chassis on my vendor. BUT with only 5 lots availible for harvesters (-2 for house/shop, -1 for factory, -1 for fusion reactor for harvester power, -1 for Nova Courier), I do have to buy resources. And I will pass thecost of those resources to the customer in the price. Along with my fee for making it. So when I pay 7.5 cpu for steel, you pay 7.5 cpu + fee for steel when you buy a product from me. When I pay 10 cpu for high quality High Grade Polymetric Radioactive to make missiles, you pay 10 cpu + fee for missiles made with high quality High Grade Polymetric Radioactives. And my fee is whatever I feel my time is worth, which isn't usually onerous unless someone contacts me for a custom job (as they usually catch me in the middle of doing something else).
If you want 'free' ships and components, master Shipwright and make them yourself. But don't expect people who are paying for the resources to make the products, not to grind Shipwright, to eat the costs because you're GREEDY.
Ducimus wrote:
I must say that my orginal post was primary in sarchastic fun.. *shrug* oh well, i was bored.
for that matter. People see a price tag of 250,000 or 750,000 and make accusations of "greed"!! Find out what the CPU truly is before you scream greedy scumbag, andyou might find that you need to be screaming at armorsmiths (or chefs 
).
X-Rebel wrote:
I think in threory your absolutly right in the way you charge. I have never asked for anything for free. The only problem iever had was if one person can charge 1000 for one thing and make a rpfitand another person charge 100,000 for the same thing is wrong. i dont have a problem with passing the buck on prices like that but when you get out of hand people have problems with them. personly like i have stated before i have never ever had a problem with ship prices because of the resource needed to make them. I have a problem with people makeing 4x to 10x the profit off the causal player. Dang it i am rambleing again and probaly not makeing since lol.
X-Rebel wrote:
in all fairness the resource requirement for ships needs to be lowered to be more inline with others. I know other thingsneed to have different resources like a ship would not be able to be built on the same resources a gun can be but maybe cut the resources in half that would help alot all the way around. imo
In all fairness, the resource requirements are fine. The other professions could use increased resource requirements as a real economy is developing by the circulation of credits between Shipwrights and resource sellers.
What I do find humorous, however, is the fact that many of the people complaining about the prices of ships are themselves responsible for the costs as they sell resources.
sry for the ramble again lol
Rhysen wrote:
X-Rebel wrote:
in all fairness the resource requirement for ships needs to be lowered to be more inline with others. I know other thingsneed to have different resources like a ship would not be able to be built on the same resources a gun can be but maybe cut the resources in half that would help alot all the way around. imo
In all fairness, the resource requirements are fine. The other professions could use increased resource requirements as a real economy is developing by the circulation of credits between Shipwrights and resource sellers.
What I do find humorous, however, is the fact that many of the people complaining about the prices of ships are themselves responsible for the costs as they sell resources.
hmmm i agree thereal enonomy is developing by the circulation of credits. The down side to it is that people like myself that have come back to the game have a real problem getting credits. lol i have played the ground game to a point where i bet bored real easy and i get tired of missions that only pay 800 to 1000 credits its hard to russle up the credits. Tha would be around and average of a 1000 to 1500 missions just to get a ship. thats not counting space loot since the nerf that loot does make a dent but in cost but still means i have to do ALOT of dutys and missions to make that kind of credit.
That is my soul aspect of the game i am not playing the game to have fun and play with other. I stead i am playing for credits to pay these prices. thats why i think resources accross the board need to be droped to a point that way we can play a game.
lol the only other down side is the content in the game is limited to a point as others have said but i havnt seen alot of the content because i am a casual player and i get bored easily lol
Message Edited by X-Rebel on 12-30-2004 04:27 PM
Maybe what merits examination is what causes those accusations to begin with. I think most people know ships take alot of resources (and rightfully so, excepting imp ships i think), the problem is twofold from my perspective:
1.) quality of the SW's wares
2.) variation in his/her price.
If one shops around enough, you quickly begin to tell which SW's are amature's and which ones have some good (buisness) sense. One problem i encounter is alot of SW's simply don't have their schitt squared away. Its pretty easy to tell. a hodgepodge of stats on parts, nothing standardized, below par mass on ships and or below par parts.
Most of all prices that are NOT adjusted for the quality of the work. Maybe they have no clue how they compare to other SWs, or just cannot mark down for whatever reason. Dedicated pilots probably do know how SW's compare if they shop around as often as i think most do. Now picture finding those types of shipwrights, as 80% to 90% of the shops you go to.
Frankly despite all of the catfighting in this thread ive never stated one simple thing. Im not in the market for ships or parts anymore. There's only two things im intrested in. MKIII armor at about 1000 to 11K armor at 6K mass or lower, and MAYBE a custom RE part if i ever find enough parts to do the job.
Point is as most people master, i thik their need for a SW is low to non existant. Without exaggeration, i could probably fly for a year on what i have now before i had to replace anything except armor plating. Other than that, there is nothing a SW can make that i need other than a rare RE custom order. As more and more ppl master, im theorizing this will become the norm for alot of other people.
Ducimus wrote:
Well, he wrote too much
But anyway: I still buy plenty of ships at the moment, of course I buy stuff for guildmembers and the like. I'm still shopping around every once and awile for a good crafted engine or a specific type of loadout I want to try. As well, other people will decide they want to try another pilot profession *looks at Ducimus* and have to buy all new ships. Hell, you might be able to use your current equipment, but can you really when theres so much other crap out there to try?
theoden-flurry wrote:i dont mind shipwrights normaly just fork over a load of space loot for my stuff lol.
Heh you know a barter deal would be better for both parties. Good idea whatever shipwright you work with.