Pilot Archive
Thread: I just Fought a guy in a JSF: My thoughts:
Actually, afirst time Pilot in a heavy WILL need to change out of a Heavy, since a single gun at their current cert lvl will not be enough firepower after about halfway through tier2
Imperial ships are low on hardpoints, even a well equipped TIE Advanced may have only one gun. I just redid a squadron, without an RE'd equipment, and used a TIE heavy. Just for fun, I used the same ship all the way to master, and soloed the vette with it and a simple Advanced blaster. For Imperials, it's a great little ship.
xTekx wrote:
lesniak wrote:
JSF is fine. It is suppossed to be an elite ship. Lowering mass is unnecessary, although the quest to get it should be harder...much harder. Grevious ship takes a couple of jedi and a lot of luck to get after and hour of fighting. JSF is to easy to get. On the other points...yes Heavy Z, Tie and Syck is just laughable. Why should a basic polit get a ship better than anything up to T4 and master. One ship and you never need to change. They should move the heavy varients to t3 IMHO or for God's sake nobody below t2 should get them. A basic ship is better than B4 ROTW t4 ships. Come on.
Well, here we go again, another thread on the JSF.
First off, I can't believe you just said the "JSF is fine." This shows you have no idea what is really going on. I'm not trying to be mean here, but if you knew anything about JTL then you would know that ALL the ROTW ships are screwed to hell and neeed a balancing. And yes that includes the JSF.
Personally I think the JSF should be lowered to 40k mass, just like the TIE/IN. The ship is tiny. How can something that size have almost the same mass as an Xwing? Does not make sense. What I would like to see is the either the mass lowered to the 40k mark, or have the PYR acc rates lowered while having the ships size increase to something bigger. No way should the JSF have what it has at the size it is. Same goes for other ships. Heavy Xwing should have worse PYR acc rates for having more mass. The heavy Z's, Syck's, etc, should all have their mass lowered to 40k also. That is if it wants to keep the PYR acc stats that they have. Now that would be balancing the ships.
How would this be balancing? 40k mass is not fun to play with. Period. Why not advocate an increase in mass for older ships instead of nerfing what definately feels appropriate in a light fighter? Have you ever made a 40k mass ship work in PVP? I have. It's not very much fun and it dooms the ship to be completely inviable in PVE. These new fighters can be used for both and that's a smart move by the devs. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean people who disagree with you don't know anything about JTL. Have you considered that players having fun might be what the OP is basing his opinion on?
I've fought the JSF in an oppressor, it's not that bad. If it is that bad for you, maybe you should be appreciative of the new challenge these ships present and rise to meet that challenge. If you can't do that then really all you are doing is whining about losing. The opposite also holds true, if you are bored from winning all the time maybe you should try a different loadout that evens it up for other players.
It's a moot point, they won't "balance" anything. They know the ships are fine as is and everything is going to stay the same. The only difference is more and more people will get used to the ROTW ships and stop complaing. You'll see.
quadpers0n wrote:
xTekx wrote:
lesniak wrote:
JSF is fine. It is suppossed to be an elite ship. Lowering mass is unnecessary, although the quest to get it should be harder...much harder. Grevious ship takes a couple of jedi and a lot of luck to get after and hour of fighting. JSF is to easy to get. On the other points...yes Heavy Z, Tie and Syck is just laughable. Why should a basic polit get a ship better than anything up to T4 and master. One ship and you never need to change. They should move the heavy varients to t3 IMHO or for God's sake nobody below t2 should get them. A basic ship is better than B4 ROTW t4 ships. Come on.
Well, here we go again, another thread on the JSF.
First off, I can't believe you just said the "JSF is fine." This shows you have no idea what is really going on. I'm not trying to be mean here, but if you knew anything about JTL then you would know that ALL the ROTW ships are screwed to hell and neeed a balancing. And yes that includes the JSF.
Personally I think the JSF should be lowered to 40k mass, just like the TIE/IN. The ship is tiny. How can something that size have almost the same mass as an Xwing? Does not make sense. What I would like to see is the either the mass lowered to the 40k mark, or have the PYR acc rates lowered while having the ships size increase to something bigger. No way should the JSF have what it has at the size it is. Same goes for other ships. Heavy Xwing should have worse PYR acc rates for having more mass. The heavy Z's, Syck's, etc, should all have their mass lowered to 40k also. That is if it wants to keep the PYR acc stats that they have. Now that would be balancing the ships.
How would this be balancing? 40k mass is not fun to play with. Period. Why not advocate an increase in mass for older ships instead of nerfing what definately feels appropriate in a light fighter? Have you ever made a 40k mass ship work in PVP? I have. It's not very much fun and it dooms the ship to be completely inviable in PVE. These new fighters can be used for both and that's a smart move by the devs. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean people who disagree with you don't know anything about JTL. Have you considered that players having fun might be what the OP is basing his opinion on?
I've fought the JSF in an oppressor, it's not that bad. If it is that bad for you, maybe you should be appreciative of the new challenge these ships present and rise to meet that challenge. If you can't do that then really all you are doing is whining about losing. The opposite also holds true, if you are bored from winning all the time maybe you should try a different loadout that evens it up for other players.
It's a moot point, they won't "balance" anything. They know the ships are fine as is and everything is going to stay the same. The only difference is more and more people will get used to the ROTW ships and stop complaing. You'll see.
Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 05-30-2005 04:43 PM
psikobunny wrote:As I said "first time pilot" i.e. someone with poorer aim, spatial awareness, mission knowledge, droid program knowledge, etc.
I totally agree that they trump a good portion of the Imperial Navy, and someone with knowledge of parts and how to use them in space will go far in one, but a rookie is a rookie.
His point still stands, Imps dont get an other weapon slot till teir 3 and most dont untill teir 4 because the bomber is hard to use. So all imperials rookie or no grind most of pilot with 1 weapon slot. Not a flame btw.
And to be on topic the JSF, all the RoTW ships really, and need some adjustment. The heavies should all be slower then the counterparts but have more mass, the ARC should be fixed, the JSF needs a mass reduction to maybe 60-70k range, and the grevious needs a mass boost but a maneuverablitiy reduction
Message Edited by evil_SOCCERMOM on 05-30-2005 07:37 PM
why do people just pick one part of a post and respond to it and think that's adequate? yes, you can work with 40k mass, but you will not have a ship capable of PVE. period. i worked an interceptor for PVP, i worked a tie up for PVP, just because you can work with 40k mass does not mean it's fun. a ship that can only come out when you know an event is coming is not a viable ship.
the JSF has no disadvantages? really? why am Iin deep space right now in an oppressor while my JSF sits in the terminal? why has 100% of the ships i've pvp'd against today been old ships? yes it's hard as hell to hit, yes you can fit as much equipment on it as you could a *gasp* awing even though it has better turns. maybe, just maybe the devs have figured that they don't want all their old light fighters to become a niche market for the few PVP'ers out there who want to show off their RE'ing skills. maybe the devs have figured out that hmmm, people want to fly in fun ships instead of compromised buckets of junk. the new ships give people that oppertunity.
you don't need to achieve balance by trading off different aspects of functionality, you can achieve balance with parity too and hey guess what? advocate that and maybe you might come off as just uninformed instead of uninformed and insulting.and please tell me... what were the "disadvantages" of your 40k mass pvp ship? what about my pre-CU tie advanced? the only disadvantages those ships had were timesinks associated with RE'ing for the perfect fit. i could kill anyone with those ships, and the only disadvantage i can think of is having to put it away when i was done killing players. all this talk about ships with no disadvantages is just a smoke screen, before the CU there were essentially perfect ships as well and did they become "the composite of space"?
obviously not. and the JSF won't become one either. POB ships will become viable, we'll get other large ship content and the heavy fighters will find themselves with roles to fill. you'll see the older ships tweaked to have some other type of advantage that doesn't involve nerfing other people's fun. if you calm down and wait a bit you'll find out everything is going to be alright. the sky isn't falling. you'll just frustrate yourself complaining anyway because the ship stats aren't going anywhere.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 05-31-2005 12:12 AM
wow, didn't realize I was picking one part of a post. sorry if you didn't like what I had to say, but that's how it is. like it or not.
If the JSF were to be reduced in mass then the disadvantage would then be the mass. Your advantage would be the Manuverability.
But hey, if you don't see a problem with the new ships then I guess there isn't really much point to debate with you because you seem to think that they are just "fine." No sense in wasting my time, since i'm about to pass out,or thread space for that matter. Besides, i'm sure you could go read the 10-20 other posts on this same subject. But then I guess you wouldn't think there isn't a problem still.
"First off, I can't believe you just said the "JSF is fine." This shows you have no idea what is really going on. I'm not trying to be mean here, but if you knew anything about JTL then you would know that ALL the ROTW ships are screwed to hell and neeed a balancing. And yes that includes the JSF.
Personally I think the JSF should be lowered to 40k mass, just like the TIE/IN. The ship is tiny. How can something that size have almost the same mass as an Xwing? Does not make sense. What I would like to see is the either the mass lowered to the 40k mark, or have the PYR acc rates lowered while having the ships size increase to something bigger. No way should the JSF have what it has at the size it is. Same goes for other ships. Heavy Xwing should have worse PYR acc rates for having more mass. The heavy Z's, Syck's, etc, should all have their mass lowered to 40k also. That is if it wants to keep the PYR acc stats that they have. Now that would be balancing the ships."
I agree that heavy ties, sycks and z-95 are over powered for a novice or t1 ship. But on the rest your nuts. You want JSF at 40K mass? That's insane. Imperial piolts have been screwed-over since JTL came out. The have a fraction of the mass of rebel and neutral ships and fewer guns. The only thing survivable is the agressor [ 1 gun] or the bomber [2 gund but handles like a dog]. Now the JSF is a T$ elite ship and the first one that an Imp pilot can make on par with over 100K x-wings, A wings [that before were either impossible to take out unless you want to spend 15 minutes sniping it]. So get off your high horse. I don't hear you complaining about ARC or Grevious. Oh yeah. Not an Imp ship.
There's another reason that you loose. Probably the main one. Imperial piolot are by far the best. Not because we're better people than you, but because since JTL we have had to make do with impossible ships. You all talk about the Advanced, but the truth is the advanced can't use double guns because it can't mount a large enough reactor or capacitor to tqake advatage of them. The Interceptor flys like a dream, but again, not enough room for reasonable shield and armor, much less anythin else. The bomber is the only ship you can pile effective equip into [I used it primary ship before JSF] but its a dog. Agressor would be great if it had two guns instead of the usually useless turret.
Unless you've had to master Imperial pilot, you have no place to talk. It is by far the hardest of the three factions and not by a small fraction. I have mastered an Imp, reb and Neutral line, and I'mtelling you. Imps have it bad.
i still agree that heavy syck, tie and Z should be novice ships. That's just wrong. Don't nerf them, but put them up in t3 or something.
BTW. A good Imp Pilot could be put in a lousy Dunelizard and you could take the JSF and you would probably still loose. Bad equipment hones good pilot skills since Imps can't fall back on cushy tech.
Message Edited by lesniak on 05-31-2005 04:18 AM
Message Edited by lesniak on 05-31-2005 04:19 AM
KiwiKnutten wrote:
Ive actually changed my oppinion about this ship, i think its damn fun to go up against, a real challange and im yet to be killed by one. Now i would never fly one of those myself even if there will be a rebel one, since im the number one awing fan.
Me and a guildmateteamed together in ourawings and went on a JSF hunt,we got three of em, 2vs1 tho.
Now i could outturn this guy andi was alot faster than him hitting over 1300 at cruising speed.
Butheused missiles and got alock on me in the dogfight, now it wore down my sheilds but not enough to start on the armor.
They are a damnBIA to hit tho even with the twoof us circling him and trying to draw him afterone another he got twomissilelocks on mebefore he was down.
I mean its overpowered as hell, but at the same time its a damn joy and challange when you go up against good pilots using em.
The missiles are a bit annoying but hey, they are part of the game and if you can use em, use em. I cant fit em onto my awing neither can i fit a CM but non of them are a necessity, if you really put some care and time into your awingthere is nothing that says the JSF willgohome with the win.
The mass on the JSF is rediculusly high tho.
Who were the people you found?
entrailsgalore2 wrote:
as someone said before ...the ETA is anELITE ship, elite ships have good stats WHy do you think anakain and obi wan were flyingthese things? lol...anyways... I dont htink the jsf should be changed, ive seen tons of JSF go down and ive kille da fe win my skyck...what shoudl be changed is teh quest...the quest should be harder to get ( as said before). You shouldnt be able to do the quest unless you were atleast a tier 3 or tier 4 pilot ( meaning untill you got that far in pilot you couldnt get the quest). And the heavy variant ships are a little overpowering, Im surprised I fit the sh it in itt that I did...I switch from a krayt to a skyck for pvping...I do bette rin my skyck.
And why would Darth Vader (you know, also Anakin ^^) fly in a Tie Advanced if he could fly an ETA? you know why? because its an advanced ship
JSF, and all RotW ships need to be balanced. Old ships were perfectly balanced before.
Cardco2 wrote:Well, I was barely able to outmanuever him enough to, not get killed.... well untill the hyper jump kicked in.Died then.But I was not able to hit his fighter once, cause H e was so dang mauneverable.He had 90k mass Im in an X-Wing so I have 100k.A bit odd. I recommend lowering it to 60k-80k.And/or making the quest MUCH MUCH MUCH harder, so therefor more rare.Otherwise I thought the fighters performance very true to the movies.I like the fact that it was so small, and mauneverable.All in all it was fun.Though im much better at dodging fire then hiting people with my fire.
Tier 4 ship with 80k mass , tell you what we will all just fly a TIE interseptor.
Go get yourself a Bublubb-22 they are basicly the same fighter only a little larger. (something like 15% larger)
ARC 170 fighters are a good three man ship i think, but you guys are obviously looking at the reward ships in comparison to the ships you can use by standard. isn't it possable to get a ship loadout with 3 guns , all imperial ships are 2 or less guns, (not counting POB ships like the y-8)
so if you load 3 2.8k dmg guns or 3.2k reverced you could do a lot more damage then a JSF. although you will probbly not be as nimble but understand with 90k mass we can't get a lot of shields and armor (kinda like the A-wing) so we tend to only last for one or two shots at most.
My tip to you, disable then destroy its the best defence in PVP as you know if you hit it and breach the armor you are 100% gonna disable there ship.
not unless they are able to dogde your fire 100% so in my second tip (a good pilot will know this) Load some Image recording missiles, then target the engin and let loose a few, they are more likely to hit the target and avoid any nasty chaffs (cos they are more prone to EMP)