Pilot Archive
Thread: Suggestion: Independent Turrets?
1st_Viduus
Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:49 am
#14
I disagree there. With a setup like that, 1 person could go up and drop the ship ina nice spot of T4 spawn and clean house.
Dual shields - maybe. If they're setup F/B and L/R.
4 armor?Maybe, if they're separated as the shields.
Guns? Um, I have a 4k top and a 3.4k bottom, both run about 65% efficiency. I think that's more than sufficient. Any single-seater craft is a 2-shot kill.
What you need to understand is that the turrets are a purely defensive ... afterthought.
The primary weapon on these things is the 3 launchers. The MP ships are designed to fly in, deliver massive ordinance, and leave. They are meant to have an escort, the turrets are a defensive measure, not an offensive one.
What I feel needs to change instead, is:
Shields max lvls need to be upgraded,
The primary weapon on these things is the 3 launchers. The MP ships are designed to fly in, deliver massive ordinance, and leave. They are meant to have an escort, the turrets are a defensive measure, not an offensive one.
What I feel needs to change instead, is:
Shields max lvls need to be upgraded,
OR
The method of delivering damage needs to change.
E.G.:
Shield takes a hit for 2000 after modifyers - on an MP ship, that should get split in half, with 1/2 going to the conduits. The conduits would obviously need to have equal HP to the shield value. This way, a crew can effecttively repair half the damage as it comes in, in effect doubling the defensive capability of the shields, while maintaining usefulness for a crew.
The method of delivering damage needs to change.
E.G.:
Shield takes a hit for 2000 after modifyers - on an MP ship, that should get split in half, with 1/2 going to the conduits. The conduits would obviously need to have equal HP to the shield value. This way, a crew can effecttively repair half the damage as it comes in, in effect doubling the defensive capability of the shields, while maintaining usefulness for a crew.
Should shields get low enough, then we should expect to see "damage bleeding" from shield conduits to Reactor Conduits, and if that gets low enough, to other system conduits as well.
Those exposted parts in MP ships need to serve a bigger purpose than "after the fact" damage control - damage control DURING an assault needs to play a higher role.
Those exposted parts in MP ships need to serve a bigger purpose than "after the fact" damage control - damage control DURING an assault needs to play a higher role.
Arryth
Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:59 am
#15
So what if they clean house on tier 4's? I can already kill one in 5 seconds flat, and take groups of up to 12. At least the multiplayer ships will get people grouping in small groups. It is FUN. The first groups I took up in my Nova had a blast.. the only problem it that it was way to vulnerable and had no where near a fair amount of firepower.. which ruined the fun. First and foremost.. fun is the priority.
DosWindo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:07 am
#16
"What I feel needs to change instead, is: Shields max lvls need to be upgraded..."
Too true... in "Alliance", the shields on the bigger ships were massive, but they recharge at a similar rate as the fighters. This, I think would be a good thing here. Heck... if ya check out the NPC ships like the shuttles and YT's, their shields work exactly like that.
I like the idea of damage leaking thru the shields as they drop, too. Gives the repair crew lots to do...
Dadgum it... I fear we hijacked this thread. But I like these ideas... I hope the devs are listening...
Garry2rs
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:22 am
#17
If you did this (with two turrets being 3 weapon banks and two turrets up front), you'd also need an extracapacitor or two.
Arryth wrote:
I think that the multiplayer ships should have the following, to make them worth useing over seperat fighters...
1)Two reactors
2)Two shields (one front, one back... of like 5k front/back shields
3)Four Armor (two fron, two back... possible 5k armopr front/back)
4)Each turret actually being a three weapon "bank".. so between the two turrets..6 blasters. That would give it equivelent firepower to an heavy fighter on each side...which is about right.
5)Two forward fireing blasters controled by pilot.. face it... Missiles are too expensive and two slow to keep the pilot entertained... Give him some blasters.
Add these thingsand its multiplayer heaven. It will encourage space groups alot.
But I definitely agree that the multi player ships are under powered, all things considered. I like your idea. Seeing how we have 5 MILLION mass, and I haven't even used 500K of that mass, we could stand to add a lot of stuff to the MP ships.
1st_Viduus
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:39 am
#18
Dual reactors is also un-necessary; I have a looted and RE'd cert 8 reactor with 31k+ energy - can't wait to see the Cert 10....
A lot of the stuff that is meant to fit ONLY on the MP ships needs to be hunted down. I don't think MSW's can make the stuff you can loot at Cert 10, but it is "out there". Shields are an exception -- max is 2500 from what I understand, with 25 recharge. This is good, awesome even, but inadequate for an MP ship.
The Cert10 guns rock, and so do the Cert10 Capacitors.
Message Edited by 1st_Viduus on 11-23-2004 12:41 PM
DosWindo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:49 am
#19
Well... "better" stuff, not the ability to carry more stuff and/or the devs having to mod the ships, is what they need... a 500k mass shield that runs 10-15k f/r... that's all they gotta do...
and given that these ships have some 5 mil worth of stuff that they'll carry, leads me to think that that sort of thing is in the plans. Thus far though, we're not seeing it. And given that I'm seeing lvl 10 loot now, and it's not even close makes me wonder...
Sure would be nice to have 2 caps, though... for those weenies that keep hogging all the juice in the other turret... ;P
Dragon942
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:57 am
#21
I think independent turrets IS a good idea. But until then...just remember to use your mouse instead of the joystock in the turrets. Its not impossible to hit things. I have flown with another master pilot in my turret before and he blew stuff up. Then we switched and I blew stuff up. Since then I have not flown with a single person that could hit anything. You just need to find skilled gunners.
But obviously something needs to be done about the effectieness of mulitplayer ships. A five master pilot crew in a multiplayer ship would be destroyed by even just two master fighter pilots. Five on two should not be such a sure loss for those five.
DosWindo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:19 am
#22
"I think independent turrets IS a good idea."
it's certainly interesting, but I think even it would take some getting used to. Given the turrets maximum horizontal and vertical points, I would probably be more confused than if I handled all that manually. There's also a big advantage to doing it all manually, anyhoo... for example, if a fighter does a strafe by on your side of the ship, and your pilot cuts left to turn and chase it... if you cut left as well, it's like having twice the yaw! You can cut back and get some shots at its back with some practice.
Either way, it'll take some practice. I know I'm far better with the turrets than when I started, and probably have a good ways to go.
Narrganocca
Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:31 pm
#23
As a frequent passenger/turret gunner in my Guild Leader's Nova, how about this cahnge to MP ships
1 Capacitor per turret (2 total)
Each turret mounts 2 guns instead of 1...so 4 projectile harpoints.
Keep the 3 missiles for the pilot, he doesn't need blasters, otherwise he negates his gunners, cuz he'll be bobbing and weaving to try to tail fighters.
MP ship specials would be big sheilds and armor, gives the ship more survivability.
I know I have copied others ideas here, just my opinion on what would work...not uber guns, just more points to attach more guns, thus increasing firepower. Really survivability is the issue with these boats. Why have 5 million mass when you can hardly scratch 10% of that with all level 10 components, doesn't make sense. A crew of 6 on these ships is far more effective right now in individual fighters.
AirDingo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:49 pm
#24
I agree that there shouldn't be any AI aiming assistance however, the turrets are not designed to be purely defensive. The multiplayer ships areassault craft and anti-fighter platforms. They are not designed to fight like capital ships but also not to dogfight like a starfighter. The independent turret would simply make aiming for the gunner easier. Starfighters are quick and nimble even when compared to a freighter-sized craft.To compensate for thier quickness the turrets must be quick to lock on and fire.
Yes, a good crew andpilot could indeed hold thier own against the starfighters as it now stands as long as they held a steady course with only a few tier 4 or several tier 3 enemies to try and hit. However, these craft are designed to hold thier own against gunboats and higher tier starfighters, increased accuracy would go a long way to providing that. I'm not saying we are flying the exact equivalent to a gunboat but we have the same capabilities. And any Pilot who has gone up against an NPC MP Ship or gunboat knows just how accurate and hard to kill those ships are.
Message Edited by AirDingo on 11-23-2004 03:54 PM
Loki_Ashaman
Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:55 pm
#25
I believe the Devs stated at the end of beta they were investigating how to code this. And while the many posts here about how the pilot should fly level are valid, what about the 2-person ships? Do you expect the pilot of an Aggressor or Y-wing to fly level so his gunner can line up shots? And no I am not asking for an auto-aim, it would just be nice to have a counter-rotation.
AnteriusPataka
Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:57 pm
#26
Ok...here's my clarification that I accidently put into a new thread...
---------------------------
Ok first off people... when we say "independant turret movement" We do not imply that ANY AI is going to be involved. What we are saying that when the ship banks, the guns do not change where they are pointing. They stay where they are pointing until either: A) the ship turns so much the turret reaches it's limit of fire arc. or B) the gunner moves it.
We are not implying any computer controlled turrets at all. These are still completely and utterly manned guns.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion that I've been getting from your posts.