Pilot Archive

Thread: How to Fix the Jedi Fighter.

S-1-l2-H-C
Thu May 12, 2005 11:54 am
#131






TomoRainer wrote:

And on a third note, has anyone tested whether chassis speed mods affects PYR rates as well yet?



define "chassis speed mods".


do you mean the winglets and strakes? are they actualy supposed to do soemthing?

Message Edited by S-1-l2-H-C on 05-12-2005 11:54 AM



____________________________
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Harotak, Imperial Ace, pilot of the RGI "No Quarter" and the "ISS Enforcer"
Katorah, Corsec Security forces, Captian of "The Unrelenting
Harotak', Rebel Terrorist
TomoRainer
Thu May 12, 2005 11:58 am
#132

I mean the .95 speed mod on the Eta-2, for instance. A 100-speed engine in this ship will give you a max speed of 950, whereas in an A-Wing, it will top out at 1000. Say your engine PYR is also 100. Is this modified by your chassis as well, such that an A-Wing's pitch at ideal throttle would be 100, but the Eta-2's would only be 95?

In other words, at the ideal throttle and once they're both turning as fast as they can go, will an A-Wing and a YT-1300 with identical engines turn at the same rate?







Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent


darmokVtS
Thu May 12, 2005 12:22 pm
#133



Vicotnik wrote:
I guess, but I'll bet that I could outfit an A-wing with as much mass as the Jedi Starfighter that would make my B-wing completely obsolete.




The A-Wing would not get 4 blaster slots and 250k mass with just being boosted to Jedi Starfighter values.

Get real.




Kope Sanisa, Medic / Imperial Pilot Ace
McGyver, Smuggler / Imperial Pilot Ace
Allanar Jansan, Commando / Freelance Pilot
Gaitan
Thu May 12, 2005 1:08 pm
#134






Vegitaa wrote:


There's plenty of "specific" proposals for how to change these ships without smacking them too hard with the nerf bat.


Also, I can see the arguement that "In PvE this is not as much a concern, it's the limited PvP community that is screaming for balance" In many ways that can be seen as true.


I PvP in space. So yeah, I guess I'm a PvP'er. Also it's not "just" the JSF thats out of balance. The ARC and Greivous and the Heavy fighters are almost equally out of balance. Sure, the amount of forward weapons are different and the mass is slightly different, but essentially they all have nearly the same YPR. Thats the problem.


These of course are different from the original ships we were given throughout pilot. I don't want to use too many comparisons to specific ships as I would suggest looking at the specific stats for those ships. Leave the JTL original ships alone. Period, thats our benchmark.


Compare mass/YPR of the original ships at the proper tier levels and bring these "new" ships into line with that.


600/600/400 Y/P/R is way over the top when you consider the 90k-125k mass of these new ships. There is the krux of the issue. It's not who gets which ship with which uber stat, it's ALL of these new ships have insane YPR ratings. Simply tweaking those down to a reasonable level will resolve 90% of this issue.


If you're still unclear on what I mean by all that.. just go to page 1 or 2 of this thread, scroll down, I listed the cruuent stats and some proposed changes.


Flaming people or making uninformed statements just clouds the issue and makes the Dev's think we're too combative to contribute our opinions to help make this game better.







My emphasis (not sure if you were responding to me or not, because I have been reading the whole thread. Regardless...


What I'm getting from this is that if you take mass and loadout capabilities of the new ships out of the equation and concentrate on performance then there is a solution that meets the needs of the PvP community without significantly impacting everyone else.


Does that about cover it?


It's not a perfect answer for the PvPers, but it sounds rather uncomplicated (just lower some YPR numbers and place the new ships on a more equal footing with pre-expansion craft). Am I reading that correctly?




Gaitan
Master Spy
Elder Smuggler, Imperial Colonel.
S-1-l2-H-C
Thu May 12, 2005 1:10 pm
#135







FataIity wrote:

my eta-2 will hit the 90 degree angle of attack limiter (where your ship turns so hard it slows down to avoid slipping so much your flying backwards) from about 1/3 throttle all the way to full boost at 1795 speed.


Whoa.... what engine do you have in it. Mine has a RE'ed prenerf level 6 95.9 speed. Without EO its 910 Base. With boost and EO3 my max is 1402






i use a prenerf freelance lvl8 re'd reward with 108 speed, and a 37 speed booster.


also i run eo4, i would recomend you do too.



____________________________
Starsider:
Harotak, Imperial Ace, pilot of the RGI "No Quarter" and the "ISS Enforcer"
Katorah, Corsec Security forces, Captian of "The Unrelenting
Harotak', Rebel Terrorist
Vegitaa
Thu May 12, 2005 1:13 pm
#136






Gaitan wrote:
My emphasis (not sure if you were responding to me or not, because I have been reading the whole thread. Regardless...


What I'm getting from this is that if you take mass and loadout capabilities of the new ships out of the equation and concentrate on performance then there is a solution that meets the needs of the PvP community without significantly impacting everyone else.


Does that about cover it?


It's not a perfect answer for the PvPers, but it sounds rather uncomplicated (just lower some YPR numbers and place the new ships on a more equal footing with pre-expansion craft). Am I reading that correctly?






Yes sir, seems that you are correct. Mainly (if you go back and read the many many posts) the concensus seems to be that if the YPR (Performance) numbers were just tweaked down a bit then these ships would still have the mass advantages but reduce their massive YPR advantages.


The whole "imbalance" comes in becuase at their current mass you can load all sorts of groovey cert8 and higher gear in them. Stack on top of it the fact that these ships have the best turning and acceleration stats available. Put all that together and you have an "I Win" button.


Making it so that to be competitive at all every pilot would be required to own at least one of these new reward ships, or be destroyed. Maybe thats what SOE was thinking when they did this? Make the new ships so much better than the old ones so you are "required" to buy the expansion to remain competitive. Thats a marketting decision not a decision to better the game. Who knows.





There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.


Gaitan
Thu May 12, 2005 1:23 pm
#137







Vegitaa wrote:

*snip*


The whole "imbalance" comes in becuase at their current mass you can load all sorts of groovey cert8 and higher gear in them. Stack on top of it the fact that these ships have the best turning and acceleration stats available. Put all that together and you have an "I Win" button.


Making it so that to be competitive at all every pilot would be required to own at least one of these new reward ships, or be destroyed. Maybe thats what SOE was thinking when they did this? Make the new ships so much better than the old ones so you are "required" to buy the expansion to remain competitive. Thats a marketting decision not a decision to better the game. Who knows.








I know it struck me as a marketing tool, but I had thought (from the descriptions first given in the previews on the internet sites) that these ships were going to be small and light. I believe that in the case of the JSF there was a sentence or two that alluded to the fact that in the hands of a Jedi wise in the Force, yadda yadda (or words to that effect).


So.


Leave the mass and drop the YPR performance. People can still load their nifty-neato-cool items, but they will have to fly the things with skill to bring their weapons to bear on a target.


Sounds like a plan, and I don't think anyone can successfully argue to leave these new ships as instantwinners.


Ah, the sound of compromise. A wonderful thing.




Gaitan
Master Spy
Elder Smuggler, Imperial Colonel.
Vegitaa
Thu May 12, 2005 1:29 pm
#138






Gaitan wrote:

Ah, the sound of compromise. A wonderful thing.







Thats what I'm screamin yo!


Actually, the majority of posts in this thread ring true of true compromise. No one saying.. AWing must pawn! Or Imperials deserve it!


Pilots from multiple galaxies, guilds, and factions all coming together for "balance"... Tis a beautiful sight!


"Dogs and Cats living together.. It's pandamonium!!!" LMAO!



There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.


Ducimus
Thu May 12, 2005 1:29 pm
#139

Balance Pradigm pre ROTW:

Low Mass = High YPR
Medium mass = Medium YPR
High Mass = Low YPR

Every ship Pre ROTW follows this paradigm in varing degrees. The more mass they had, the less YPR. The more YPR, the less mass they had. This balancing limitation has not been adhered to with the ROTW shps. They ARE out of balance, they are not limited to be in scale with the rest of the game.



Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies

"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession
JediNg
Thu May 12, 2005 1:39 pm
#140

For those of you using the real life examples of things that are old and are still good, IE Cars and fighter planes, you have to remember the galactic empire/republic is VERY old. They have had this level of technology for over a millennia. Their rate cultural and technological evolution is much faster than ours. In "real life" terms, 20 years in their time could mean the difference in 200 years to us in terms of technological evolution.



Ritha Egasiso - 12 experiment point Master Weaponsmith.
To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, Flat Top, Chuckles, Jolly, Crashdown, Sheppard, Dash, Flyboy, Stepchild, Puppet, Fireball...
You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't?
Stand by, FTL.
On the day before pub 10, jdmaldo said: "for everyone who grinded the last months of their lives away and didn't get jedi: owned"
Gaitan
Thu May 12, 2005 1:47 pm
#141






JediNg wrote:
For those of you using the real life examples of things that are old and are still good, IE Cars and fighter planes, you have to remember the galactic empire/republic is VERY old. They have had this level of technology for over a millennia. Their rate cultural and technological evolution is much faster than ours. In "real life" terms, 20 years in their time could mean the difference in 200 years to us in terms of technological evolution.






I think we've established that timelines and technological progression really have no place in this debate. Any chance we can stop beating on that dead horse?




Gaitan
Master Spy
Elder Smuggler, Imperial Colonel.
JediNg
Thu May 12, 2005 1:48 pm
#142

No



Ritha Egasiso - 12 experiment point Master Weaponsmith.
To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, Flat Top, Chuckles, Jolly, Crashdown, Sheppard, Dash, Flyboy, Stepchild, Puppet, Fireball...
You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't?
Stand by, FTL.
On the day before pub 10, jdmaldo said: "for everyone who grinded the last months of their lives away and didn't get jedi: owned"
Ducimus
Thu May 12, 2005 2:07 pm
#143

I personnaly feel the best solution is to lower the YPR rates to be roughly in scale with a ship of its given mass. That way we don't create any more "prenerfs", and nobody has to refit any ships because of mass changes.



Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies

"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession
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