Pilot Archive
Thread: In regards to the recent EP3 and /launchmissle posts.
Paladon wrote:
I don't see the problem, considering you lose all capacitor energy, shield hitpoints, get a command delay timer, and have to face off against unbalanced ships like the Eta-2 Actis Interceptor, Vaksai, Royal TIE, and heavy varient fighters.
Nerf the RotW fightersand give the REAL heavy fighters defensive modifiers before nerfing EP3,
The problem lies in the fact that JTL is a twitch based system. Meaning you have to use hand-eye coordination for your reaction... PUSHING a button to use something that is being deemed a "tactic" is not... i repeat NOT in line with the twitch system... if Epulse required you to get a lock on your target like you do with missles, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.. but when someone with EP3 gets inside of 300m of you... there is no amount of dodging, juking, weaving, whatever, that you can do to PREVENT being killed by EP3...
Someone says there are tactics against EP3. Ibeg to differ. You can't stay outside of 300m in a dogfight. Especially 1v1. You go for a h2h pass and guess what? You're inside 300m in the blink of an eye. Did I have time to get a volley off and turn tail before I hit that 300m wall? I could shoot him with missles.Which is the only feasible thing you can do against an Epulser. Just like you do with the RGI. However, if that person has counter measures... well.. guess you're dead to that Epulser. And you're back to the same thing of he didn't beat me with skills or tactics. All he did was get inside of 300m and press a button that's all. It's like on the ground. Oh, i think i'll use a knockdown shot now. F6(underhand shot). Woot! he's on his back. Ok i'll use advanced critical shot now. Woot! 900 points of damage. I am awesome!
Angamarth wrote:
Fixed.
As stated in many responses, there are counters to epulse3, including missiles, keeping your distance, and most importantly, wingmen! Very simply, coordinate with your wingmen and take turns on a neutral, don't both be in epulse range at the same time. If he epulses one of you the other should waste him right after.
If you're trying to apply some archaic dueling code to space warfare, it's about as silly as the British lining up in a field and then complaining when they got shot from behind the trees in the Revolutionary War. This argument reminds me of all the people that used to get pissed when a combat medic whipped out the poison and disease during a duel, or a creature handler whipping out the pets. It's part of their character, they should get to use it. If you can't modify your tactics to the situation, then maybe you need to rethink what you do.
Now, if you've pre-arranged a duel with conditions such as no epulse, and someone uses it, that's a different story.
xTekx wrote:
hitting a button that requires you to do nothing to ensure that it is successful is not a tactic in a twitch based system. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
Probably the same thing that is so hard to understand about using your twitch skills in concert with a wingman so that if someone epulses they're dead two seconds later, or using your twitch skills to lock missiles, or any other tactic.
xTekx wrote:
Again, i will say that JTL is a Twitch based system.. hitting a button that requires you to do nothing to ensure that it is successful is not a tactic in a twitch based system. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
xTekx wrote:
Did I have time to get a volley off and turn tail before I hit that 300m wall?
xTekx wrote:
You can't stay outside of 300m in a dogfight. Especially 1v1.
xTekx wrote:
I could shoot him with missles.Which is the only feasible thing you can do against an Epulser. Just like you do with the RGI. However, if that person has counter measures... well.. guess you're dead to that Epulser.
So they came prepared, AND timed it right.
xTekx wrote:
All he did was get inside of 300m and press a button that's all.
That'sexactly what I do with my blasters...is that wrong?
xTekx wrote:
It's like on the ground. Oh, i think i'll use a knockdown shot now. F6(underhand shot). Woot! he's on his back. Ok i'll use advanced critical shot now. Woot! 900 points of damage. I am awesome!
You need some Defender/Armor(oh, and, nerf CM before EP3, hehehe).
You have to be kidding right? I mean, really. When you fire your blasters you can automatically kill every single enemy player within 300m regardless if they were even in front of you? You are an awesome pilot!
Paladon wrote:
So to begin with you missed him when you got in range(550m).
So, how often are you able to successfully disable or kill your opponent at that range before the circling dogfightbegins? It isn't very easy to do that especially if your opponent corkscrews his way into close range. So, yeah, missing at >300 meters is pretty common.
Paladon wrote again:
Actually that's the BEST time to stay outside that range. Also youmight consider getting a fighter with a turret and lining him up while you are going the other direction,
Ok, so, you are going to try to stay farther than 300 m away from your opponent throughout the entire duration of the fight and expect to even have a remote chance of scoring a hit before they get within 300m and press the epulse button? I just want to clarify that that is your advice to successfully fighting epulsers. And yes, that is a strawman, but it isn't any more absurd than what you are saying.
Paladon proclaims:
So they came prepared, AND timed it right.
Yes, and they came prepared to cheese their way to victory.
Paladon the magnificent marksman boasts:
That'sexactly what I do with my blasters...is that wrong?
Message Edited by NorLeoRo on 09-21-2005 01:10 PM
xTekx wrote:
Paladon wrote:
I don't see the problem, considering you lose all capacitor energy, shield hitpoints, get a command delay timer, and have to face off against unbalanced ships like the Eta-2 Actis Interceptor, Vaksai, Royal TIE, and heavy varient fighters.
Nerf the RotW fightersand give the REAL heavy fighters defensive modifiers before nerfing EP3,
The problem lies in the fact that JTL is a twitch based system. Meaning you have to use hand-eye coordination for your reaction... PUSHING a button to use something that is being deemed a "tactic" is not... i repeat NOT in line with the twitch system... if Epulse required you to get a lock on your target like you do with missles, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.. but when someone with EP3 gets inside of 300m of you... there is no amount of dodging, juking, weaving, whatever, that you can do to PREVENT being killed by EP3...
Someone says there are tactics against EP3. Ibeg to differ. You can't stay outside of 300m in a dogfight. Especially 1v1. You go for a h2h pass and guess what? You're inside 300m in the blink of an eye. Did I have time to get a volley off and turn tail before I hit that 300m wall? I could shoot him with missles.Which is the only feasible thing you can do against an Epulser. Just like you do with the RGI. However, if that person has counter measures... well.. guess you're dead to that Epulser. And you're back to the same thing of he didn't beat me with skills or tactics. All he did was get inside of 300m and press a button that's all. It's like on the ground. Oh, i think i'll use a knockdown shot now. F6(underhand shot). Woot! he's on his back. Ok i'll use advanced critical shot now. Woot! 900 points of damage. I am awesome!
Finally, someone with a clue.
oh and epulse is unbalanced.......rebel/freelance/imperial would all be pretty much balanced, if it wasnt' for freelance getting epulse.......rebels have a little higher mass ships than imps, but imp ships dogfight better, so it balances out, freelance ships are like rebel ships, so they balance with rebs and imps.......but damned epulse throws freelance over the top and into the realm of best choice for pvp......get a vaksai or heavy scky and go to town epulsing everything, while imps and rebs die at your onslaught, its unbalanced
oh, and the bel22/jsf is not unbalanced because everyone can get one.....not everyone can get epulse
Paladon wrote:
xTekx wrote:
Did I have time to get a volley off and turn tail before I hit that 300m wall?
So to begin with you missed him when you got in range(550m). How often do you hit someone in the h2h pass at 550m? Because if you do it a lot, i'd like to learn from you.
xTekx wrote:
You can't stay outside of 300m in a dogfight. Especially 1v1.
Actually that's the BEST time to stay outside that range. Also youmight consider getting a fighter with a turret and lining him up while you are going the other direction, How are you going to do that. It's tough to stay outside of 300m and win with lasers. Even if you try for a missle lock you're going to get inside of 300m pretty quick.
xTekx wrote:
I could shoot him with missles.Which is the only feasible thing you can do against an Epulser. Just like you do with the RGI. However, if that person has counter measures... well.. guess you're dead to that Epulser.
So they came prepared, AND timed it right. Yes.. they did come prepared. But you took that out of context. If they came prepared to chaff a missle from you and still Epulsed you, how are you going to feel? Was it "skill" that beat you? I think not.
xTekx wrote:
All he did was get inside of 300m and press a button that's all.
That'sexactly what I do with my blasters...is that wrong? There is a difference in killing inside of 300m with blasters and with EP3. You should know the difference. Lining up a killing shotand then hitting your trigger button is where the "skill" comes in. Getting inside of 300m and hitting a button, say F5 (if that is where it is hotkey'd) is not skill. It is not a tactic to get inside that sphere and press a button. He did not line up a shot. He did not work to get on the guys tail.
xTekx wrote:
It's like on the ground. Oh, i think i'll use a knockdown shot now. F6(underhand shot). Woot! he's on his back. Ok i'll use advanced critical shot now. Woot! 900 points of damage. I am awesome!
You need some Defender/Armor(oh, and, nerf CM before EP3, hehehe). Defender? Armor? Are you talking Jedi here? I'm one of the most anti-jedi people in this game. I do pvp on the ground. And while I have fun doing it, I hate the attitude that the players have there. But what can you do? I however love the space pvp becuase I don't just run over there and hit F6(which is what using EP is), then F8, then pop a pixie, then hit F3, then hit burst run and try and escape(if it's a Jedi).CM doesn't need the nerf right now. I can survive just fine against CM's. Pre-CUCM's were ridiculous though.
Message Edited by xTekx on 09-21-2005 03:24 PM
Starstrider6 wrote:
Maudee wrote:
Starstrider6 wrote:
Well thanks Maudee. Had it not been for your petulant little rant and the subsequent flames, I would never have realized that EP3 was a dangerous tactic in PvP, and I never did know how to do the /launchmissle thing - but I sure do now!
Oh don't act so surprised, one of my friends on Chimaera is a forum Corro, and in the game he told me that the Devs had found a way to fix the 0 mass RE bug. I was pretty glad they did after he explained what it was! That was an EVIL bug! I didn't know anything about that either. Then again, I don't go looking for, nor do I abuse bugs.
My point here is that I play SWG for fun, and I PvP in DS for fun. I was thinking that PvP was movement, guns, and missles and I didn't know that EP3 was so powerful, so I never used it. But now I do, and not only that, EP3 is perfectly legal!
My other point is that after your long rant (and every other "vet" out there complaining about it and descrbing it in detail) I'm going to bet that I'm not the only pilot that learned about a neat new tactic for PvP, and an annoying little bug to throw at an opponent.
The irony here is that instead of making a situation better, you may very well have done a lot to make it worse. Grief players and players with a WAAC mentality just live for information like this, and you handed it to them on a platter. They will know it gets under your skin, and that is *exactly* where the grief player wants to be.
But hey, I bet you feel all better now that you've gone and vented your spleen don't you? *big thumbs up*
Message Edited by Starstrider6 on 09-20-200509:00 AM
Dear Starstrider6,
Fear not I have realized the error of my ways. So I must apologize. I'm sorry for inventing EP3. I'm sorry for inventing forums. I'm sorry for writing the first EP3 post (In regards to the RECENT EP3 and /launchmissle posts.... ??!). And above all I'm sorry for those poor souls wearing pink polo shirts with popped collars (Wow, who decided that was a good idea??).
Next time a balance breaking issue comes up I'll be sure to do my best to cover it up immediately with the hope that developers never look into it. After all, who would ever want fair play?
/end rant #2
-Maudee
Aw, and you thought I wouldn't appreciate sarcasm?
I really do grow weary of the small group of self-anointed "experts" that decree what is and isn't right for PvP in deep space. Talk about the supreme arrogance born from overblown egos about "skill" (and I use that term loosely) in a computer game.
Is EP3 illegal? An exploit? No. But it's something you don't have the intelligence or "skill" (oh the irony) to defeat in your best-of-the-best equipment digital fighter. So you and a few others have decided that it's overpowered, not to be used, etc. You make up little "rules" that can't be found anywhere other than your own head and call them canon.
Remember, I don't use EP3 and don't intend to in the future. But the beauty of it is that I would never have known about it had it not been for you tossing allthe toys out of the pram and throwing such a wonderful tantrum. Oh, and that "balance breaking issue" argument you're trying to hide behind? Nice try, but you were ranting at the players, not offering up a well-written essay to the Devs. That could have been handled via email or a PM. Of course, an intelligent commentary wouldn't have gotten you any attention, or "QFE!"s or attaboys now would it?
Oh one last thing - that comment - "Han Solo would notbe proud" - I loved that one! Han Solo is a fictional character - as fictional as your little set of "rules" you want to impose on other people because *you* think they're right. How nice of you to call the image of the unreal to support your arguments. /golfclap
Message Edited by Starstrider6 on 09-21-2005 02:56 PM
Ok since this has apprently broken down into a charactor war, allow me to defend myself.
I have never said I was an elite pilot. Infact I doubt I've ever posted anywhere that I was a good pilot. As for this "elite" pilot group you speak of, you'll have better luck finding the illuminati. Most of the people on these forums have no idea who I am. I'm not slipping bribes under the table to the Starsider pilots to agree with me. As for the Bloodfin pilots who have posted here, why don't you ask them what kind of person I am. Go for it, ask Tek, Nesayna, Starscream, Ayanami, Bic, Nearro, or anyone else whom I've ever spoken with on Bloodfin what kind of person they believe me to be. Hell I spent hours writing a pilot guide way back when because I love this community so much. (Search for Maudee's guide to the Imperial Pilot prof. Looking back... what was I thinking! :smileyvery-happy
Frankly you've brought nothing to the table concerning EP3. You've said yourself you've never used it, or never even knew about it. Apparently you believe your ignorance in the matter is the norm for the pilot community. Take a stroll down memory lane and skip back 5, 10, or 20 pages on the forums. Count how many EP3 related posts you find. Of course you won't bother, as obviously I'm to blame for airing it to the public.
There is a general concensus that EP3 does not belong in PVP. As it stands anyone can toss together a ship, fly in the middle of a PVP furball, hit EP3 and drop every hostile in 300m. Yippie, you've got 0 shield strength after that. You'll be able to shunt out of that in 15 seconds. PVP fights often last in excess of 5 minutes, 15 seconds of vulnerability is nothing. Heck I fly a regular intercepter without shields sometimes.
Of course I didn't email the devs. For the same reason I wouldn't email the President. The forums are a place for people to bring up these sort of balance issues.
Pull your head from the sand here. We're all aware that EP3 is not currently listed as an exploit or bug. We're saying it just doesn't fit into the puzzle of JTL space combat.
I think it should be obvious that many people consider this issue important. This post currently contains around 130 replies. More than the focus thread on JTL and the GCW. So unless you have some intelligent commentary on EP3 or /launchmissles, quit posting here. Start a new thread labeled "Maudee's an idiot!" for all I care.
And since you loved the Solo line so much here's another...
Why didn't Luke just EP3 the deathstar?! What a waste of time flying through that trench.
-Maudee
I wouldnt feel that bad about using it if it were in defense, say more than one enemy player is closing in on me. Usingit as an opening attack would feel cheap to me. It would be cool to see it like /lastditch, where you can only use it if you have the option to eject.
Or make it much like /lastditch- the more damaged your ship is the higher it damages for.
Starstrider6 wrote:
Remember, I don't use EP3 and don't intend to in the future. But the beauty of it is that I would never have known about it had it not been for you tossing allthe toys out of the pram and throwing such a wonderful tantrum. Oh, and that "balance breaking issue" argument you're trying to hide behind? Nice try, but you were ranting at the players, not offering up a well-written essay to the Devs. That could have been handled via email or a PM. Of course, an intelligent commentary wouldn't have gotten you any attention, or "QFE!"s or attaboys now would it?
Message Edited by Starstrider6 on 09-21-2005 02:56 PM
You do realise that TH has stated publicly that attempting either of these will end up with it deleted unread
This leaves us with what?? RANTING to see if it gets noticed by a random dev OR taken to the dev's by our correspondant because of our stong feelings on this topic
This thread is funny. 
One group sets up unspoken rules, then the other camp says it's dumb to set up rules and sets up their own unspoken rules. Then we go back the other way, then back, and back, and back, and I'm getting motion sick.
At the end of the day, how about thinking that it's a game, and should be fun. Back in college my roomates and I would sometimes brawl, just for the heck of it. And sure, we could have punched each other in the sensitives, or gone for the nose, or any of a number of any other things that would have ensured a win. But we liked brawling, and wanted to have fun, and since fun was our aim we avoided things that weren't fun for the sake of continuing the game.
That is to say, I think the two best points in this thread were a reminder (waaay back before it got ugly) that this is a game and should be fun, and a warning not to complain anymore about how empty space is after no one is having fun anymore. Just pick the world you want and fly accordingly.