Pilot Archive
Thread: pilots: we must change this!
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Eilla
Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:59 pm
#1
Think you're going to master pilot? Think you're going to do it alone or even with the occassional help of a friend? Think again!
XPnot gated missions, must be the way to advance to master pilot. This is no longer fun.
At first, I liked the the gated mission approach. Not any more. I am a smuggler's alliance pilot. The first mission in the master pilot box is (not completely but might as well be) impossible. This mission begins with about six tie oppressors. They are easily dispatched. Then a gunship with four firesprays comes next.
Firesprays? They're nothing. Boom, boom, boom, boom.
Then comes the gunship.
The gunship is impossible to destroy solo or aided.
I realize these ships are now invincible because master pilots complained it was too easy to master the profession. The rest of us who come after are, therefore, in a catch-22. If you haven't mastered freelance pilot, you ain't going to do it.
SOMETHING has to be done about this. I tried this mission solo several times and failed. I then tried with the help of a master pilot friend. We both failed twice. Then I tried with a 4-4-4-3 pilot and a 4-4-3-3 pilot as wingmen. Again, we failed twice.
I've been playing this game since it launched. I love JTL and I adore SWG with all of my heart. But this is not right. And remember, for all of you ?-?-?-? pilots who aren't supernaturally gifted with a joystick, this will haunt your quest to master the professiontoo.
I just want to fly my yt1300. Is that so wrong?
Eilla
Wanderhome
Master doc, master rifleman, 4-4-4-4 pilot
Message Edited by Eilla on 02-06-2005 05:41 AM
Eilla
Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:16 pm
#3
the reason, as I stated above:
these ships are now invincible because master pilots complained it was too easy to master the profession. The rest of us who come after are, therefore, in a catch-22. If you haven't mastered freelance pilot, you ain't going to do it.
And lets say it's just supremely, horribly, difficult for three guys with twitchy fingers to do. I appreciate the thought behind the comment. But the fact is, the gunships are simply too hard.
Message Edited by Eilla on 02-05-2005 07:18 PM
KaylBreinhar
Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:50 pm
#4
The mission where you're tasked with destroying twin Black Sun gunships with escorts...the ones that FOLLOW YOU AROUND if you try to run and pepper you with endless barrages of missiles if you don't keep a 750m distance...THAT mission is hard. As I remember it, this Ye-4 just kinda flies around in a circle and only really takes a swipe at you when you get within range.
I was able to help two people with this mission - the trick is to NOT expose yourself to the upper and lower halves of the Ye-4, and dance like you're suffering from a grand mal seizure. Spacebombs (Mk1 for you) also help.
I was able to help two people with this mission - the trick is to NOT expose yourself to the upper and lower halves of the Ye-4, and dance like you're suffering from a grand mal seizure. Spacebombs (Mk1 for you) also help.
TomoRainer
Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:51 pm
#5
That mission hasn't been changed. I remember it being really hard when I was trying it back in November--I had a couple guildmates stuck on the same mission, and what we had to do was kill all the escorts, then have the guys who didn't have that mission active go in and zerg it till it died.
I'm sure I could solo it now, though. One way to do it is to draw off the escorts (fat, easily killed Firesprays), then go on strafing runs till the thing dies. It will teach you a few things about not getting hit that will end up very useful for both PVE and PVP.
The thing is, you learn way more about flying after you've mastered your first squad than you do during that first trip up the tree. After some more experience in a cockpit, missions that once seemed impossible have you wondering what the heck you used to be thinking.
Edit: I almost mentioned that Black Epsilon mission, heheh. That one's rough. I did manage to solo it, in a one-gun Interceptor, through the process of a few dozen strafing runs (and without using Bomberstrike, which I'd forgotten I had, as I was so used to being a Smugglers Alliance pilot). As I recall, the gunboats moved almost as fast as their "escorts," so you couldn't fly far enough away to draw off the fighters without failing the mission or bumping into the edge of the sector. End result being I had to fly through the middle of eight fighters and two gunboats on every pass.
If strafing runs worked on that, they'll work on the SA mission.
I'm sure I could solo it now, though. One way to do it is to draw off the escorts (fat, easily killed Firesprays), then go on strafing runs till the thing dies. It will teach you a few things about not getting hit that will end up very useful for both PVE and PVP.
The thing is, you learn way more about flying after you've mastered your first squad than you do during that first trip up the tree. After some more experience in a cockpit, missions that once seemed impossible have you wondering what the heck you used to be thinking.
Edit: I almost mentioned that Black Epsilon mission, heheh. That one's rough. I did manage to solo it, in a one-gun Interceptor, through the process of a few dozen strafing runs (and without using Bomberstrike, which I'd forgotten I had, as I was so used to being a Smugglers Alliance pilot). As I recall, the gunboats moved almost as fast as their "escorts," so you couldn't fly far enough away to draw off the fighters without failing the mission or bumping into the edge of the sector. End result being I had to fly through the middle of eight fighters and two gunboats on every pass.
If strafing runs worked on that, they'll work on the SA mission.
Message Edited by TomoRainer on 02-05-2005 08:10 PM
KaylBreinhar
Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:54 pm
#6
TomoRainer wrote:
That mission hasn't been changed. I remember it being really hard when I was trying it back in November--I had a couple guildmates stuck on the same mission, and what we had to do was kill all the escorts, then have the guys who didn't have that mission active go in and zerg it till it died.
I'm sure I could solo it now, though. All you have to do is draw off the escorts (fat, easily killed Firesprays), then go on strafing runs till the thing dies. It will teach you a few things about not getting hit that will end up very useful for both PVE and PVP.
The thing is, you learn way more about flying after you've mastered your first squad than you do during that first trip up the tree. After some more experience in a cockpit, missions that once seemed impossible have you wondering what the heck you used to be thinking.
Very true - I learned most of my assaulting by helping a friend do multiple squadrons - I got a "sneak peek" at the hardest missions of the other Imperial squadrons and privateer squadrons.
Don't get me wrong, though - uber weapons help. Also, try to fit as thick of a plate of armor as you can spare - once those turrets get through the shielding, they're hitting your chassis, which is essentially hp.
Do yourself a favor as well, and check your chassis hp score. If it's below about 750/750, get a new deed PRONTO. That'd be why you're exploding so quickly. Treat chassis hp as a sheet of armor - it's your ship's HAM.
psikobunny
Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:49 pm
#7
This mission has been changed, but posting the word invincible in red doesnt mean the ship is. You used to be able to follow the gunboat at 550m and plug it, now it breaks from its path and chases you. It takes a lot more skill to beat, but its doable. making boosting strafing runs, using a friend to play cat and mouse, knowing and using your droid programs and specials, all these things make the mission hard but doable. a worthy master exit, that doesnt need to change.
PS someone who is a "master" isnt necessarily good at the game, so just because you had one helping you and he failed doesnt mean the mission is impossible.
Eaca
Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:04 pm
#8
Eilla wrote:
SOMETHING has to be done about this. I tried this mission solo several times and failed. I then tried with the help of a master pilot friend. We both failed twice. Then I tried with a 4-4-4-3 pilot and a 4-4-3-3 pilot as wingmen. Again, we failed twice.
There's a difference between somebody with a "Master Pilot" title, and somebody who is a master pilot. I don't know how many missions I've helped on where somebody has asked me, saying "I had 2 other aces with me before and the 3 of us couldn't do it, and you say just the 2 of us can?" then after "WOW! That was sooooo easy!" So maybe try to find somebody who is a master pilot, not just somebody with the title.
KaylBreinhar
Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:33 pm
#9
^^^
"Just cuz ya gots the title don't mean ya got th' skills."
"Just cuz ya gots the title don't mean ya got th' skills."
Eilla
Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:05 pm
#10
Well, with no sympathy here, I will simply try for a ninth time.
Thanks for the feedback...
S-1-l2-H-C
Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:21 am
#11
is this the one with the two tier4 blacksun gunboats or the single corsec ye-4? either way ive done both many times for friends, and its by no means impossible.
storm squadron has it much worse, we get to fight without any npc support a gunboat, 2 novas, and a ton of bwings and ywings all pounding you with missiles from the word go. black epsilon gets to fight a tier4 assault gunboat in a TIER THREE mission.
me, i enjoyed soloing all those missions, they were challenging. either learn how to do it or get someone who does know to help you.
if this is the corsec gunboat then i have a tip you can try, but you better know how to fly if you want to pull this off (which judging by your post i bet you do not). you can fly insde a ye-4 gunship, match speed, and mimic its manuvers. this lets you pound on it while it cant shoot at you. a cheap tactic, but if you cant figure out any other way, it works.
storm squadron has it much worse, we get to fight without any npc support a gunboat, 2 novas, and a ton of bwings and ywings all pounding you with missiles from the word go. black epsilon gets to fight a tier4 assault gunboat in a TIER THREE mission.
me, i enjoyed soloing all those missions, they were challenging. either learn how to do it or get someone who does know to help you.
if this is the corsec gunboat then i have a tip you can try, but you better know how to fly if you want to pull this off (which judging by your post i bet you do not). you can fly insde a ye-4 gunship, match speed, and mimic its manuvers. this lets you pound on it while it cant shoot at you. a cheap tactic, but if you cant figure out any other way, it works.
psikobunny
Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:52 am
#12
You didn't ask for sympathy, you poosted in big fonts and flashy colors and tried to turn a makeable mission into something political. People Ace Smuggler's Alliance every day, so logically, they get past this mission every day. Using words like "must change" and "impossible" are just silly when confronted with that.
I agree that high tier gunboats with this AI are very very hard, but you've gotten some excellent tips from people who have done exaclty what you claim is impossible. The change wasn't made because of some political agenda on pilot's part, it was made because any zero who can recognize 550m and hit matchspeed could get past this mission solo.
TomoRainer
Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:21 am
#13
It's not that I'm not sympathetic, but I do firmly believe that the various pilot professions should have rough points that force you to develop new tactics, to rely on innovation and skill as much as the size of your guns and the thickness of your armor. Killing a gunboat isn't impossible, but you shouldn't be able to engage them like you would a starfighter--nor take them out, as apparently you used to be able to, with the Kessel method of hanging 535m behind their tails. (I wasn't smart enough to use that trick when I ran this mission; like I said, the best idea me and my buddies could come up with was kamikazeing it, which may be a bit of a dirty trick, but not in the same way taking advantage of overly simple AI is.)
One of the best things about JTL, in my opinion, is that the missions (when they're at their best) are hard enough to be interesting but not so hard that they're outright impossible. It really blows when you're on the same mission for the eighth time and it appears to have been designed by a dev with a bad childhood--I've probably logged at least a day or two's worth of hours lost to failed Storm Squadron missions flying wing with my guildmates, and it can get tiresome--but the benefits that come with getting past these things, the sense of real accomplishment and the development of new strategies and abilities, things you can't be rewarded with by training a skill box but that will set you apart from other pilots much more than access to level 10 guns ever would, are more than worth the frustration that comes with hard missions. These benefits are aspects of the game it's very dangerous to level unfounded accusations at, things some of us feel compelled to defend because we think they're working pretty well right now, a state that, for this game, can often feel awfully rare.
Ask for advice next time and I'd wager you're met with a much more sympathetic response. As might be clear by now, some of us pilots are pretty proud of our skill in the cockpit, and I expect we wouldn't pass up the chance to blow a lot of hot air and the occasional bit of sound advice if the opportunity comes in the form of a question rather than an accusation.
One of the best things about JTL, in my opinion, is that the missions (when they're at their best) are hard enough to be interesting but not so hard that they're outright impossible. It really blows when you're on the same mission for the eighth time and it appears to have been designed by a dev with a bad childhood--I've probably logged at least a day or two's worth of hours lost to failed Storm Squadron missions flying wing with my guildmates, and it can get tiresome--but the benefits that come with getting past these things, the sense of real accomplishment and the development of new strategies and abilities, things you can't be rewarded with by training a skill box but that will set you apart from other pilots much more than access to level 10 guns ever would, are more than worth the frustration that comes with hard missions. These benefits are aspects of the game it's very dangerous to level unfounded accusations at, things some of us feel compelled to defend because we think they're working pretty well right now, a state that, for this game, can often feel awfully rare.
Ask for advice next time and I'd wager you're met with a much more sympathetic response. As might be clear by now, some of us pilots are pretty proud of our skill in the cockpit, and I expect we wouldn't pass up the chance to blow a lot of hot air and the occasional bit of sound advice if the opportunity comes in the form of a question rather than an accusation.
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