Pilot Archive
Thread: The FS Conversion Dead Horse
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AnzelVincir
Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:57 am
#1
** This is a repost of an editorial posted on www.bluefrogserver.com ***
Yes, there have been many discussions on this already. Yes, it is considered by many to be a dead horse. However we have not had a definitive and final ruling from either the dev or community relations teams. This purposeful indecision usually means that the horse is not in fact dead but rather incapacitated and awaiting either a /revive bringing it back to its feet or a /deathblow killing it perhaps forever with no hope of cloning.
Many of us feel that Jedi do not belong in this current iteration of SWG and that space is our sole sanctuary where we are able to enjoy a small respite from the chaos that is the Jedi dominated ground game. Whether you are currently grinding FS on Dathomir to become a Jedi, grinding your Jedi template, or hunting the Jedi down like dogs, it is undeniable that Jedi have added an extreme amount complication and controversy to this game. Now, with the inclusion of Jedi Star fighters in the next expansion pack and the Combat Upgrade looming in our immediate future we really need to ask ourselves, "Should JTL and SWG be one in the same?"
The answer to the above question is overwhelmingly yes. The inclusion of a Force Sensitive conversion rate is not only desirable but necessary for the success of this game and here is why:
BECAUSE THIS IS STAR WARS: The vast majority of people that originally purchased SWG were and still are very loyal Star Wars fans. The Star Wars brand remains this game's biggest (and only by many people's estimation) asset. Like it or not, space combat is the centerpiece of the Holy Trilogy. From the climactic ending to ANH where Luke used the Force to destroy the Death Star, to the destruction of a Trade Federation capital ship by young Anakin in TPM, to the final chapter arriving in theaters next month where the Jedi have their own star fighters. Every single film in the Star Wars cannon features a space battle of one kind or another.
JTL REQUIRES ACTUAL GAMEPLAY: Many Jedi are simply macro jockeys. As the author of SWG Macro Magic it is exceedingly clear how that statement will be received by the current Jedi population however there is some truth to it. Unlike the DB/Rezz macro method or grenade method, JTL takes actual skill. It doesn't matter if you have the best ship out there loaded with legendary weapons and it doesn't matter how many credits or resources you have. If you don't have the skills you're not going to last very long in Deep Space. Many players enjoy booting up their macros and then hitting the old sofa for some TV time however many of us enjoy actually playing the game.
ONE HOUR OF PLAY = ONE HOUR OF PLAY: One of the most compelling arguments against the FS conversion rate for JTL is the large amount of XP that can be acquired in space. This objection can be handled very simply by adjusting the conversion ratio accordingly. For example, if you gain Y amount of XP while sitting on the couch waiting for your macro to run in the other room then you should also be able to earn the same Y amount of XP from actually playing JTL for one hour. The only difference (aside from actually being in front of the computer having a good time) would be the conversion ratio.
WHAT TO DO WITH PRESTIGE?: After a pilot becomes a master they no longer receive space combat experience points, they receive prestige points. Right now these prestige points have no use whatsoever beyond gaining entrance to Deep Space. Converting these prestige points to FS points is a simple and straight forward solution. It requires that you master another profession beyond what it takes to become glowie and provides master pilots with something useful to spend their prestige on.
PUT PLAYERS BACK IN SPACE: Yes Deep Space can be a hoot and nothing is more fulfilling than helping a fellow guild member or factionally aligned player blast the crap out of the Corvette. Beyond that there is no reason to head back into space. Most players who purchase JTL are simply using it for the 'free' and direct travel. It has been reduced to a time saving mechanism for people who are on their way to Dathomir to bludgeon countless rats in the middle of nowhere. A FS conversion of prestige points would put butts back in star fighters. It would provide an incentive for players to explore one of the best and most unique aspects of SWG... JTL.
So until this matter is ruled upon in a decisive and final manner I submit the following to all you macro jockeys out there:
/target DeadHorse;
/beat senseless;
/pause 3;
/ui action toobarSlot00;
Message Edited by AnzelVincir on 04-07-2005 02:00 PM
GrepMaster
Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:00 pm
#2
I agree with about FS conversion.. and for those other people I submited several bugs regarding space on TestCenter prior to the last patch to live, and they have not been addressed yet.
Ducimus
Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:54 pm
#3
What a nice eloquent pile of bantha crap. No seriously, the english language and persuasive writing is all about how well you can sling schitt, or being a better schitt slinger then your opposition.
I stopped reading reading here:
------------
Now, with the inclusion of Jedi Star fighters in the next expansion pack and the Combat Upgrade looming in our immediate future we really need to ask ourselves, "Should JTL and SWG be one in the same?"
The answer to the above question is overwhelmingly yes. The inclusion of a Force Sensitive conversion rate is not only desirable but necessary for the success of this game and here is why:
BECAUSE THIS IS STAR WARS"
---------------
No need to go any farther, the bombs been dropped. Pro jedi post. First of all, i dont really need to ask myself of JTL and SWG should be one and the same. Why should i? The developers have already unequivocally stated many times during JTL's development and beta that Jedi is staying on the ground. I don't see how there is any room for argument over a FS conversion for space XP. The answer is simply NO. Secondly, just because its star wars doesnt mean that we can ignore game balance. Newsflash j3d 3y3z, other people play this game toadn are not 2nd rate subscribers.
What part of No, don't you xp grinding trogodytes with the instawin button's don't you understand? If anything there should be a protest over an inclusion of a jedi only fighter, assuming it is to be jedi only. Which is a safe assumption given the fighters name. And its a VERY SMALL fighter at that. Anyone who's PvPed enougn knows, small size with manuverablity = huge advantage. So on the ground they have instawins and in space they are now getting smallest, hardest to hit fighter in the game? That's a bunch of bull****.
So their advantage extends to not only on the ground but to space soon as well. You can take FS xp conversion requests, and kindly stick them where the sun doesn't shine.
I stopped reading reading here:
------------
Now, with the inclusion of Jedi Star fighters in the next expansion pack and the Combat Upgrade looming in our immediate future we really need to ask ourselves, "Should JTL and SWG be one in the same?"
The answer to the above question is overwhelmingly yes. The inclusion of a Force Sensitive conversion rate is not only desirable but necessary for the success of this game and here is why:
BECAUSE THIS IS STAR WARS"
---------------
No need to go any farther, the bombs been dropped. Pro jedi post. First of all, i dont really need to ask myself of JTL and SWG should be one and the same. Why should i? The developers have already unequivocally stated many times during JTL's development and beta that Jedi is staying on the ground. I don't see how there is any room for argument over a FS conversion for space XP. The answer is simply NO. Secondly, just because its star wars doesnt mean that we can ignore game balance. Newsflash j3d 3y3z, other people play this game toadn are not 2nd rate subscribers.
What part of No, don't you xp grinding trogodytes with the instawin button's don't you understand? If anything there should be a protest over an inclusion of a jedi only fighter, assuming it is to be jedi only. Which is a safe assumption given the fighters name. And its a VERY SMALL fighter at that. Anyone who's PvPed enougn knows, small size with manuverablity = huge advantage. So on the ground they have instawins and in space they are now getting smallest, hardest to hit fighter in the game? That's a bunch of bull****.
So their advantage extends to not only on the ground but to space soon as well. You can take FS xp conversion requests, and kindly stick them where the sun doesn't shine.
psikobunny
Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:14 am
#4
God this is like the 4th dead horse argument thread in a week, why don't you people go bug pilot stuff on tc5 or something. Make yourselves useful.
Kassuff
Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:26 am
#5
Agreed
/tar corpse of dead horse;
/whip;
/macro waste of bandwidth;
psikobunny
Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:46 am
#6
I suppose if this post wasn't simply a "reset start over" of the old topic, and actually accounted for a lot of the legitimate issues with the idea that have come up in the other threads, then I'd give it the time for a reasoned response. I've seen you post in those threads before Anzel, and all you do is pay them lip service then go on with the same old tripe. You may like repeating yourself, but I'm not really fond of it. I've shot down most of these arguments elsewhere, I don't feel like indulging you and taking the time to do it again.
dlc3007
Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:26 am
#7
Well, AnzelVincir.... looks like you got smoked like a saber with a short in it. Go away now. No Jedi advantage in space. Want to get in a standard ship? Great. I'm sure there's a long line of pilots who'd love to greet you. Otherwise, go eat a grenade.
Tumbler2002
Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:27 am
#8
ONE HOUR OF PLAY = ONE HOUR OF PLAY
100% agree.
Until someone can explain to my why playing SWG in space doesn't count I will always support having Pilot Pretige convert to FS xp for an appropriate ratio.
TBO the amount of effort it takes to be successful in space vs on the ground is way out of wack.
30 min of space play = 1 hour of ground game
When I grind on the ground all I have to do is keep my macro's running and my toolbars loaded. There is almost nothing for me to do besides target next enemy and wait.
Playing as a jedi is something that all players probably have at least a curiosity about. If one player has been playing space for 6 months, and another player has been all ground for 6 months, they've paid the same dollars to SOE, spent the same time sitting at their computer, and deserve the same reward.
100% agree.
Until someone can explain to my why playing SWG in space doesn't count I will always support having Pilot Pretige convert to FS xp for an appropriate ratio.
TBO the amount of effort it takes to be successful in space vs on the ground is way out of wack.
30 min of space play = 1 hour of ground game
When I grind on the ground all I have to do is keep my macro's running and my toolbars loaded. There is almost nothing for me to do besides target next enemy and wait.
Playing as a jedi is something that all players probably have at least a curiosity about. If one player has been playing space for 6 months, and another player has been all ground for 6 months, they've paid the same dollars to SOE, spent the same time sitting at their computer, and deserve the same reward.
AnzelVincir
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:31 pm
#9
psikobunny wrote:
I suppose if this post wasn't simply a "reset start over" of the old topic, and actually accounted for a lot of the legitimate issues with the idea that have come up in the other threads, then I'd give it the time for a reasoned response. I've seen you post in those threads before Anzel, and all you do is pay them lip service then go on with the same old tripe. You may like repeating yourself, but I'm not really fond of it. I've shot down most of these arguments elsewhere, I don't feel like indulging you and taking the time to do it again.
Sorry, but this editorial wasn't really meant specifically for your enjoyment, and like I mentioned in the original post it's not going to go away until one of the devs gives a decisive and final ruling on the subject.
Everytime one of these types of issues comes up there are always those who are afraid of the game progressing or are jealous of what other playersmay do if enhancements to the system are made. It's sad really to think that the vast majority of players have to deal with a crippled system becuase the devs are worried about the tiny segment of the player base who cry when such advancements are made.
I know this because I've been around long enough to see it happen with so many other issues. The 10 minute waits at the shuttle, pulling mounts and droids in the wilderness, armor encumberence, specials destroying your stats, the galaxy wide search, entertainer buff times,etc, etc, etc.
Every time a way is identified to realize this game's potential there will always be someone whois scared and jealous that it will make the game better for other players without eventaking the time to contemplate how it will improve their own experience. It doesn't really matter in the end though now does it? I mean c'mon, I just pulled my speeder out in the middle of nowhere, buzzed over to my city's shuttleport and hopped a shuttle to Theed in less than one minute...
Message Edited by AnzelVincir on 04-08-2005 05:34 PM
Menyor
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:57 pm
#10
here's the real question when it comes down to it...and down to everyone who is for or against this change. how does this benefit me? It doesn't. I don't want to be a jedi. but you know what, if you want to be a jedi, and you want to grind it in space, fine. but then we're gonna have to implement penalties in space like they have on the ground game. loss of xp on death. and by NO means should jedis get anything special in space. they shouldn't be able to use force powers, they shouldn't get improved aiming or anything, IMO, they shouldn't have their own ship (though i don't think it's been said if it WILL be jedi only). the only thing is i don't want to see people flying in space just for the xp. so the conversion would HAVE to be low. and the multiple master xp bonus shouldn't affect it. but for those people who want to be jedi and still like to fly, i don't see why we can't give them a little incentive. but let's not make it THE place to grind jedi. that's not practical at all.
MonsofoLexius
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:00 pm
#11
From what I have gathered in my focus threads and from PM's and in-game is this:
"Most pilots (by about a 75%+ margin) would much rather hope for something space related for prestige rather then a FS conversion". An overwhelming majority wouldwant to hold out for stuff rather then have a FS conversion.
Personally I would agree with them, but if even 50% wanted a FS conversion I would push for it. But it has been under a 25% percentage that have been 1) Really wanting 2) On the fence, and that tends to have me push for other stuff differentfrom a FS conversion...
JiganSterling
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:03 pm
#12
anyone remember when jedi players were the minority....
*sigh*
I am all for the FS conversion....ONLY and ONLY if jedi suffer xp loss for dying in space. Simply put...you can't have one without the other. Dying in space is just like dying on the ground. Your dead either way.
Ducimus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:23 pm
#13
The whole desire of FS conversion for space xp is whiny jedi's trying to get more jedi of their instawins for less work. In otherwords, itwould make things EASIER for them - and thats why they push for it so much.
Personnaly i think they are too numberous as it is now, so things are obviously too easy for them already. The last thing the game needs is for them to have it EASIER. Space is the easiest xp, the whole idea is self serving and does not bennfit the game as a whole.
Personnaly i think they are too numberous as it is now, so things are obviously too easy for them already. The last thing the game needs is for them to have it EASIER. Space is the easiest xp, the whole idea is self serving and does not bennfit the game as a whole.
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