Pilot Archive

Hi

Well I know that higher is better.

If you press V inflight then you see those numbers in the upper left corner of the screen.
Are the Acceleration values more important or the Max ones?

What are good/best stats for those (in a TIE Interceptor)? I have 5.2 Acc (2.6 for roll) and 1.2 Max on all so far.

What stats in PYR on the engines do you need to reach the next point? (I was able to reach 2.6/1.2 Roll with 65.8 roll, but 66.3 Pitch was only 1.1. and 65.8 Yaw again was 1.2, so I assume its different for each value, perhaps depending on Chassis as well)

Is there a chart or list or whatever somewhere?

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Coreena wrote:
Hi

Well I know that higher is better.

If you press V inflight then you see those numbers in the upper left corner of the screen.
Are the Acceleration values more important or the Max ones?

What are good/best stats for those (in a TIE Interceptor)? I have 5.2 Acc (2.6 for roll) and 1.2 Max on all so far.

What stats in PYR on the engines do you need to reach the next point? (I was able to reach 2.6/1.2 Roll with 65.8 roll, but 66.3 Pitch was only 1.1. and 65.8 Yaw again was 1.2, so I assume its different for each value, perhaps depending on Chassis as well)

Is there a chart or list or whatever somewhere?

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Since max values are so high that current engines in the game are not going to reach that max it seems that acceleration is the only factor tha makes difference.

1.2 is high?
And why can't it be reached?

Message Edited by JediNg on 04-03-2005 07:07 AM

No one asked what acceleration is.

Coreena, check the sticked threads on the top of this forum, there is alot of useful information there.

To make it a but easier, here is the link which has 'complete' ships' information.

For example stats of average Tie Advanced chassis: Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150

As you see pitch, yaw and roll limits have very high values so that currently existing engines do no reach those limits (except for very heavy ships) unless I misunderstand something or that statitics is not correct. And I don't know whether acceleration of 1.2 is very good or not (or just an average) I think this is more a question to shipwriths who had an opportunity to experiment with ships crafting.

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Fuss wrote:

Yea i have been trying to resolve the numbers I see in the FAQ and the numbers I see when flying my ships. The 2 sets of numbers seem to scale the same, but how they relate I have no idea. 300 yaw vs 5.6 yaw? If the FAQ was the max values, then even the POB's would maneuver like the small ships, and they don't.

Speaking of which, What engine do you recomend for a POB ship? A crafted ~100TS ~50YPR or a ~75ts ~75ypr, Seems to me should just go with the high top speed engine because, ypr is so bad already and you don't want ot make quick turns anyways because of the turret gunners accuracy. Just wonderd if someone has played with a high 75-80 ypr engine on a POB ship with EO3 running, if it helps that much?

Fuss

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Yes the numbers are tricky to interpret. POB ships wouldn't and don't maneuver like small ships because their PYR limits are very low (around 50?) which limits curerntly existing engines that have higher PYR values. I did not pilot POB ships so I can't tell you, but my guess would be that since you hit the PYR limit of the ship chassis your best bet is PYR acceleration values (the higher the acceleration the faster you reach max PYR). Not sure how exaclty formula is applied (if it is posted on the forums at all) you may want to check the stickies.

I've read the faq and i know those values.

But if you would explain to me now, how 5.2 and 1.2 have ANYTHING to do with 300?

I always assumed the numbers from the FAQ are some kind of Chassis factor. Like if you have 300, you're manouvribility is better than a ship that has only 150.
Which it usually is, at least in my impression.
Also to mention is that those values from the FAQ were only available during beta or until the first Patch on the life servers, then those stats were removed from the engine, and there was no way to see them anymore (perhaps by looking into the .TRE files, not sure), so not sure if they even mean anything at all.

If your explanation would be right, a max Value of 100 would mean that all engines with 71.4 YPR or less, even with Engine Overload 4 (assuming it gives a 40% to YPR - if not: all engines with 100 YRP or less) would make the ship manouver at max. All ships except the POB ships, Y-Wings, TIE Bomber and B-Wing have 100 Pitch and Yaw and still the Awing or the Intercepter are far more Agile, then lets say a Kimogila, even if the same engine is used.

I don't say you're wrong, those could actually be max-values. Meaning a POB ship will turn the same no matter if you put a 50 YRP or a 80 YRP engine in. Would be interessting to test this.

What you see are those 6 values on the upper left corner of your ship. Pitch, Yaw, Roll Acceleration and Pitch, Yaw, Roll Maximum.
Maximum is 1.2 for me, and I doubt that means that only 1.2 of my 70 YPR engine are used.

Heh, ive posted on this countless of times. (if i didn't post so damn much id look in my history and find the posts but im too lazy right now )Here's the quickest textbook answer i can give at early morning with no coffee...


A turn, in aerial combat terms has two primary geometric terms.
Rate and radius. Or in our case, Turn rate, and turn radius.




If you were able to remove yourself from your ship while its turning, and look down on it from like a top view, you'll see your ship doing a circle, right?

- Turn Radius is the tightness of your turn circle.
- Turn rate is how fast your ship can make that circle.




JTL orginal listed engine stastics aside, trying to keep this explanation simple:

- Sony defines "turn Rate" ingame as YPR acceleration and this is located on your chassis. This number is static and cannot be changed.

- "Turn radius" is defined by your engines YPR value. This can be changed through RE engineering. From my own experiments it takes *ROUGHLY* (not exactly) 5 or 6 units of YPR on an engine to make a 0.1 difference in your listed turn radius in the components screen.


So in otherwords a 63 YPR engien might be pushing a 1.1 on the chassis, a 68 to 70 YPR engine might be pushing 1.2 on the chassis, and like 71+ is 1.3 I think you start hitting 1.4 turn radius at around 78 YPR on the engine.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 04-04-2005 07:51 AM

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Coran_Sienar wrote:

I'll try to explain. The numbers in the FAQ are from the beta and early release of JtL. The acceleration rates are solely dependent upon your chassis and your overload programs. I'll try to give you an example:

The Tie Interceptor has a Pitch Acceleration Rate (that is, pulling up or down) of 300 degrees per second per second. Let's say that you've got your reward engine with the 79.9 speed, 63.2 degrees per second Yaw Pitch Roll turn rate.

If you're flying level, and you yank back on the stick at about 80-85% throttle (where your craft is most maneuverable), you will hit your maximum turn rate (as dictated by your engines YPR stat) in 0.21 seconds. (63.2 Deg/Sec) / (300 Deg/Sec^2)

A Tie Oppressor has a pitch acceleration rate of 100. So, if the pilot is using the same engine as the above example, he/she will reach the maximum turn rate in 0.63 seconds. (63.2/100) In fast, jinking maneuvers where you change your flight vector frequently, by yanking your joystick to the stops, that is a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage. You have nearly 0.4 seconds of breathing room in a Tie Interceptor versus Tie Oppressor fight.

At your maximum turn rate of 63.2 Deg/Sec, you will complete a full circle in roughly 5.7 seconds. I know this seems slow, but a modern F-16 can only hit about 25 Deg/Sec turn rate at its corner velocity. Most decent PvPers use engines that are 75+ PYR. They're also going to slap an Engine Overload 4 droid program onto it so that they'll be turning at the max rate of 1.40 (40% bonus) * 75 = 105 degrees per second. That means they'll complete a full circle in less than 3.6 seconds.

Major advantages in PvP come in the slimmest of margins and requires you to have reflexes a cat would envy to take full advantage of them.

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Agree with everything except that my interpretation of the FAQ is that there are posted only caps on max speed of PYR (thus for oppressor it's 100) and acceleration modifiers are simply not specified in the FAQ (it's a little bit tricky to interpret the FAQ).

In both intepretations finally acceleration of PYR is what matters.

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Coran_Sienar wrote:

Rapax, with all due respect... You're wrong.

Turn radius has nothing to do with your chassis and everything to do with your engine speed. The higher your velocity, the larger your radius will be. (Useful to note for PvP purposes.) You can pop in a Level 1 crafted engine in a B-Wing and you will have the smallest turn radius possible in the game. It will take forever, but the B-Wing will execute a REALLY tight turn and make quite a small circle in space.

Your chassis determines turn acceleration, not turn rate. That acceleration value tells you how quickly you can hit your engine's max YPR value. It does not determine how fast you can make that turn and complete the circle. Your engines do that.

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Rate in mathmatical terms is another word for acceration.

I don't think im wrong. Here you go, i pull some of my information from here, (its meant primarly for atmposheric flight sims, but alot of it is applicable) . Were talking the same thing, just using different words. Hell ive recommended this URL alot of times but ppl just blew me off. Has diagrams and everything

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/chap3.htm





Infact, ill just copy in paste some of that since i can't make a clickly.....


Turn Radius and Rate:

Turn radius and rate are the two primary characteristics of turns. Radius is just the "tightness" of the turn circle. If you were to look down from a Gods Eye View (see Figure 3-2), the radius is the distance from the center of the turn to the turn circle, or plane, of your aircraft in feet. While the actual math for calculation of turn radius is not important (TR=V2/gG where TR is Turn Radius, V2 is Velocity squared, g is gravity and G is G force. Got that?), it is critical to understand that Turn Radius increases exponentially with velocity, or speed. A 500 knot turn at 9 G’s will not be twice the size of a 250 knot turn at 9 G’s, but roughly 4 times the size. Just remember that airspeed has a much greater effect on turn radius than does G force effect.

3-2.gif

Figure 3-2

Turn Rate is how fast your aircraft can get around the Turn Radius. It also indicates the speed of which you can change the nose position of the aircraft. Turn rate is dependant upon G’s and Velocity (Turn rate = KG/V, where K is a constant and G and V are the same as in the turn radius calculation. The constant is based upon several factors including altitude, humidity, temperature etc.). Turn rate is measured in degrees per second.

To really over simplify this, if the velocity remains constant the higher the G’s the faster the turn rate. And inversely, if the G’s remains at a constant, the lower the velocity, the faster the turn rate.

CORNER VELOCITY:

Corner Velocity is the airspeed at which your aircraft has the fastest turn rate and tightest Turn Radius. This is not the slowest you can fly while pulling back on the stick as hard as you can. You can not pull higher G’s at slower speeds. Less lift is available, therefore there is less force available to work with.

Also, at high air speeds, you are unable to pull high G’s. So somewhere in between really fast and really slow is your Corner Velocity. In most modern jet fighters simulated, this is between 400 to 500 KCAS (knots, computer airspeed). There are exceptions of course: EF2000 has a corner velocity of about 350 KCAS. If there is no documented speed in the manual, you will need to play with the handling to figure it out. It also needs to be noted that altitude can affect this figure as well.

There are 4 basic means by which you can adjust your airspeed, up or down, to reach Corner Velocity.

Message Edited by Ducimus on 04-04-2005 08:07 AM

Message Edited by Ducimus on 04-04-2005 08:09 AM