Pilot Archive

Thread: Can we get some convergence and dispersion please?

Zariell
Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:14 am
#1

Programmable convergence settings and Programmable Dispersion settings are two issues I always have considering convergence dosn't exist in JTL and either does dispersion.

What is convergence?

Well its a fundemental setting of all aerial gunnery. Since guns are often placed at a considerable distance apart (The wings), it creates a setting where its difficult to get both guns, or any at all to hit the intended target.

Convergence in Aerial gnunery is often expressed in meters, for instance a convergence of 300 meters (Common setting for combat in WWII) would mean that the opposite guns bullets cross over each other at 300 meters.



What is Dispersion?

Real guns don't fire rounds in the same line through space, round after round. Despite advanced manufacturing techniques, rifling of the barrels, and other effects, when a round fires, there is often some sideways motion imparted on it. This is actually advantageous, as it makes hitting a target somewhat easier, and increases the probability of a stray round hitting something critical (like the pilot). Pilots would tune the dispersion to either concentrate firepower on a specific small area, or spread the dispersion area out to increase the chance of getting a hit.

Message Edited by Zariell on 07-24-2005 02:15 AM



Corbantis
Zariell Lentanis - Light Jedi Knight
Master Powers FTW


KaylBreinhar
Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:31 am
#2

A lot of people on here can attest to the fact that I take JTL and the piloting profession quite seriously...

But in this case...

...you ARE aware you're essentially playing Quake 3 in space, right? This isn't I-War 2, LO:MAC, or Falcon 4.0. I consider it a minor miracle when people can manage to lead a target...adding something as complex as this...

...would turn more people off to piloting and rid us of most of the FS XP conversion and Jedi in Space threads.

My good man, you're a genius.



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
Moxie_Chugster
Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:47 am
#3

I definately agree with this, as a X-Wing vet, not having convergence makes it annoying to fly ships such as the ARC or Z95, even if it was not adjustable, having it at a set distance would be better than the current situation, only the central gun in the X-wing makes up for this rubbish and i would gladly sacrifice it if we could get convergance on the guns.


Never heard of divergance myself but i like the idea, being able to control it for different targets would be could,a wide divergance could be handy for those fast moving squints, and a narrow divergance would make taking down GBs and such much easier


uselessn00b
Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:58 am
#4






KaylBreinhar wrote:

...would turn more people off to piloting and rid us of most of the FS XP conversion and Jedi in Space threads.

My good man, you're a genius.





/sign



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My subs, now being paid to Eve Online.
Doofius
Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:48 am
#5

They should wait until WO3 is fixed before putting in any adjustable dispersion. Otherwise people would set it at the widest range and fly around, spitting out a cone of death.
Slysix
Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:57 am
#6

I've been noticing something weird in my ship...the center hud seems to float..

Try coming to a stop. Target a friend and have him fly toward you. Notice what happens to the targeting hud.

Maybe there is kinda a sorta of a bit of a convergence.....

Ducimus
Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:10 am
#7

At this point i would like to say that lack of covergance is to your advantage.

If a gun produces more than 1 bolt, (T/I or xwing for example) any one of those bolts hits, you do full damage for that gun. So for an X wing , you only have to hit with half of your spread to do full damage. If you hit with the entire spread you still do full damage as well. So what would be the point of convergance?



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JaekeW
Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:27 am
#8






Ducimus wrote:
At this point i would like to say that lack of covergance is to your advantage.

If a gun produces more than 1 bolt, (T/I or xwing for example) any one of those bolts hits, you do full damage for that gun. So for an X wing , you only have to hit with half of your spread to do full damage. If you hit with the entire spread you still do full damage as well. So what would be the point of convergance?





To make the shots go where you are aiming. Not to both sides. I find it much easier to hit something with a regular TIE than with a TIE interceptor. I dont have to continually adjust to aim "off-center" to hit something. And the ARC andZ-95 are just plain ridiculous how far apart the fire pattern is.






Expired Dec. 10 2006.
"I'm going on a very long holiday. And I don't expect I shall return. In fact I mean not to. " --- paraphrased with apologies
Treena_Daal
Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:05 am
#9

Have you looked at these ships? What leads you to believe that the blasts are supposed to converge? Nothing, from the way I look at things.

As to dispersion, this is also not appropriate. We're not firing off "rounds" here. We're firing laser blasts. Real physics don't apply to what is, in effect, nothing but energy.
Doofius
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:02 am
#10


I was thinking the same thing about dispersion too Treena_Daal, but thenI realized that if they can get lasers to producepsychedelic imagesto the sound of Pink Floyd music, then they probably could do it with lasers used blast holes into spaceships.
JanuHull
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:16 am
#11


If Rapax is right, then convergence is more of a pychological issue than a real mechanics issue. Though I'll be the first to admit I was under the impression that multiple beams meant divided damage potential.


Dispersion in a laser weapon would be a matter of beam focus intensity. That is, you widen the focal point of the beam, reducing the damage per hit, but increasing the likelihood of a hit. A shotgun effect, each pellet does less damage than the full bullet, but you splash a greater area on the target.


Message Edited by JanuHull on 07-25-2005 11:18 AM



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

JaekeW
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:34 am
#12






Treena_Daal wrote:
Have you looked at these ships? What leads you to believe that the blasts are supposed to converge? Nothing, from the way I look at things.

As to dispersion, this is also not appropriate. We're not firing off "rounds" here. We're firing laser blasts. Real physics don't apply to what is, in effect, nothing but energy.





Convergience settings are mentioned in the first X-wing novel. One of the pilots asked about settings for ground attack and some for space combat. It also seems that they converge in the movies.The A-wings laser cannons are actually supposed to be slightly adjustable elevation.


Real physics does apply to energy, even a photon has mass. But then, this space game ignore one of the fundamental laws of motion. Namely - inertia. If you shut off your engine in space, your speed and direction wont change unless acted on by an outside force.



Expired Dec. 10 2006.
"I'm going on a very long holiday. And I don't expect I shall return. In fact I mean not to. " --- paraphrased with apologies
Halyn
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:34 am
#13






Moxie_Chugster wrote:

I definately agree with this, as a X-Wing vet, not having convergence makes it annoying to fly ships such as the ARC or Z95, even if it was not adjustable, having it at a set distance would be better than the current situation, only the central gun in the X-wing makes up for this rubbish and i would gladly sacrifice it if we could get convergance on the guns.


Never heard of divergance myself but i like the idea, being able to control it for different targets would be could,a wide divergance could be handy for those fast moving squints, and a narrow divergance would make taking down GBs and such much easier








No, you're not an X-Wing vet. You played X-Wing Alliance. It was the first and only X-Wing game that had convergence available.


(And no, I'm not saying you're wrong that we shouldn't have convergence. But I am an actual X-Wing vet, having played every game in the series...including flying the old X-wing without any laser convergence where a TIE could fit between your cannons. )




Halyn Lance -- Rara Avis Flight School
Common sense is highly uncommon.
...has mastered the Pilot profession.
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