Pikeman Archive
Thread: Defenses will not stack after combat passes, says TH
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antares_Kauri
Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:02 pm
#1
"The tricky part is that currently, defense mods stack. This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue.
...
Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)"
So...I suppose something will be done in the combat passes to still allow skills to be improved, but who knows. I just hope things get a lot better for us.
antares
master pikeman
master pikeman
izdefiler
Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:23 pm
#2
This didn't start until they gave out ranged/melee defense mods out like candy to TK/Fencer/Rifleman. It's ridiculous to think that they will separate these mods out so they don't stack, makes more sense to spread those defensive mods out to more professions instead of lumping them into a few. For example, right now a TK/Fencer cross would have more melee & ranged defense than any other combination of 2 professions. If these mods were spread out to Pikeman and Swordsman (and I basically mean taking the total amount of Melee & Ranged defense mods available in the Elite Brawling professions and dividing by 4 - not creating more mods), then the TK/Fencer would have the same Melee&Ranged defensive mods as Pikeman/Swordsman.
They simply concentrated too many of these mods in too few professions, allowing the creation of templates that can't be killed without applying a heavy-damage DoT (poison/disease/fire). This in turn takes out the usefulness of specials. For example, what does a Pistoleer have that could possibly go through 80% composite/buffs/CoB/150 Ranged defense?Don't say tangle, the stats on them are horrible and buffs easilykeep up with their damage - andthere is plenty ofcomposite available that is notvulnerable to stun.It doesn't matter if the Pistoleer has invested in Smuggler for more offense or even TK for defense himself, a Pistol can not do jack against them. What about a Bounty Hunter? Carbineer?
Eliminating stacking isnot the solution to this problem. What's thepoint of having 250 Skillpoints to spend if I'm nothing but a Master Pikeman when I wield my Polearm...everything else is meaningless? That totally takes anytemplate customization out of this game, andthat's what is so fun about the game.Players will naturally find templates that work much better than others, and I agreein this situation that something needs to be done... but it boils down to them fixing their own mistakeinstead of making another one.
Braglor
Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:48 pm
#3
this thing is going to hit big, can't wait to see some of the improvments
antares_Kauri wrote:
"The tricky part is that currently, defense mods stack. This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue.
...
Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)"
TannenShaff
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:00 pm
#4
Braglor wrote:
this thing is going to hit big, can't wait to see some of the improvments
antares_Kauri wrote:
"The tricky part is that currently, defense mods stack. This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue.
...
Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)"
I hope you realize that this means no more solo krayt hunts for you.
IamDaniel
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:49 pm
#5
This change would put Pikeman and Swordsman all the way down to the bottom of the food chain. Ugh..
/Simplemon
Stonelegs
Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:46 am
#6
Assuming that handling a pike will negate any and all combat bonuses derived from other professions, what new templates will you all be using?
Dunklemaus
Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:46 am
#7
I used the word lame to describe the change of Jedi perma-death earlier, now Im going to use another term that I hate: carebear. Only reason that I can seewhythey would want to change this is to make the game more carebear friendly.
Example: I get into a melee confrontation with another soul in a far off land. Weve both spent monthes studying unarmed combat, but where I continued on to study a variety of forms of martial arts, he went off to fashion design school and learned how to fix cars also.
But when we meet, we will have exactly the same skills in the battle, no matter my extra years of training and knowlege.
Some things do need to be balanced, and games always are evolving, but this one is starting to look like the typewriting monkeys have broken out of the room where they were attempting to write Shakespeare, and are now feverishly banging away at their laptops attempting game design.
StGabriel
Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:27 am
#8
I hope you realize that this means no more solo krayt hunts for you.
It is armor that helps you against krayts. Take a person with as high of a melee defense as you want and stacked dodge/counter/block/whatever. Have them fight a krayt. Count misses. You won't see any. The "stacked" defensive abilities don't help against krayts. Mitigation does. Armor does. Toughness does. But none of these involve stacking.
*shrug*
We'll have to see what this means. I think that a certain stacking is getting a bad rap when other issues are at fault. 90% composite will reduce the damage you take from a krayt to 5% of what it would have been otherwise. If anyone thinks that some people have very high or too high defenses, I think that is probably the place to look first.
It is armor that helps you against krayts. Take a person with as high of a melee defense as you want and stacked dodge/counter/block/whatever. Have them fight a krayt. Count misses. You won't see any. The "stacked" defensive abilities don't help against krayts. Mitigation does. Armor does. Toughness does. But none of these involve stacking.
*shrug*
We'll have to see what this means. I think that a certain stacking is getting a bad rap when other issues are at fault. 90% composite will reduce the damage you take from a krayt to 5% of what it would have been otherwise. If anyone thinks that some people have very high or too high defenses, I think that is probably the place to look first.
mega3113
Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:54 am
#9
If I invest all my points into combat classes I should be better then someone who masters one class. This change means that the only viable combat combo is Doctor/ combat class or Jedi (with the new removal of perma death). A better idea would be to follow the CH model and spread melee and ranged def through all the skill boxes in a profession so you can't take one line for 95% of the defenses.
T_Rikimouri
Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:41 am
#10
He hasnt been able to solo krayts since they made the krayts uber.
TannenShaff wrote:
Braglor wrote:
this thing is going to hit big, can't wait to see some of the improvments
antares_Kauri wrote:
"The tricky part is that currently, defense mods stack. This will change because there are some min-maxers out there who have really learned how to stack these defenses well and it confuses the issue.
...
Just remember that defence mods won't stack like this when the balance is done (because its caused a lot of unfair combat situations.)"
I hope you realize that this means no more solo krayt hunts for you.
gillamonsta
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:32 am
#11
lol you think def of 150 is bad
try mine 208 range 204 melee
gillamonsta
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:34 am
#12
yeah even with my def
high end critters
nightsister protectors and above
lord nyax, krayts kimos etc all hit me every single time
they need to increase toughness of pike...hell all melee prof
but pike only has like 32 toughness compared to tk what is 54 or something
antares_Kauri
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:40 am
#13
Worse: 26 to 57 without Master Brawler.
antares
master pikeman
antares
master pikeman
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