Pikeman Archive
Thread: Stacking Defence
Personally I'd just like to see reduced value at higher levels, say every point over 100 is worth 50% of a normal point, every point over 200 is worth 25%.
I guess some people just want everyone to go elite + doctor or bounty hunter, or a master weaponsmith + elite to be just as good as someone who spends 250 points on combat skills.
Seflyn wrote:
The nerf callers have got it in their sights.
Personally I'd just like to see reduced value at higher levels, say every point over 100 is worth 50% of a normal point, every point over 200 is worth 25%.
I guess some people just want everyone to go elite + doctor or bounty hunter, or a master weaponsmith + elite to be just as good as someone who spends 250 points on combat skills.
Well your proposal is a call for a nerf, is it not? 
By deffinition makins something less effective is nerfing ritght? I am with you though. Not sure if the percentages are right. I would make it very hard to get over 200. Maybe each point over 75 should be worth 75% up to say 125 then 50% up to 175 then 25% up to 200 then 10% after that.
But something has to be done. The main problem with stacking defenses is that thre is no way to stack offensive bonuses to the same level. Some profs...like rifleman simply have nothing to stack with. Others that can stack offensive bonuses start lower and stil cap out well below what can be done with defenses. I would say that best possible defense vs best possible offense should be missed no more then 50% of the time. Otherwise by the time you add in armor and damage mitigation you end up with the missfests that go on forever. I was watching a duel between two uber stackers last night. What a boring, neverending affair.
I really hope it dosent happen.
First off you would see even more CH since it efectivly stacks with everything.
2nd if i spend 250 points in combat skills i should be better at combat then the rifleman/crafter/medic.
Lurko wrote:
I really hope it dosent happen.
First off you would see even more CH since it efectivly stacks with everything.
2nd if i spend 250 points in combat skills i should be better at combat then the rifleman/crafter/medic.
More CHes than what? Stop living in the past. Most CHes you see these days are grinding the profession for holos. The hay day of CH is long gone. These days any elite melee can tank as well or better than a CH and will deal out more damage. And when it comes to PvP CHesbecame pretty much useless once they lost the 3 rancor ability.
As for spending 250 points to better in combat than just a plain Rifleman, sure. Butif you insist on a skillpoint balance then 3 Riflemman/Crafter/Medics who have cumulatively spent more points on combat than youhave should be able to take you out.
hmm. then those two 'uberstackers' don't know how to negate eachothers defenses and probably don't have much in the way of offense and were probably buffed to obscene amounts and probably were using kinetic weapons against kinetic resists. ('cause most superDefense templates are pistol/fencer or TKM-based, which i'm sorry to say doesn't offer a whole lot in the way of offense against other extremely defensive templates. it's gonna be a slow fight.
i'm thinkin, if i am willing to spend every available skill point on combat, why SHOULDN'T i be able to beat everyone who didn't? pitting two completely combat oriented characters will come down to experience, timing with stims/foods/drugs, buffs, armor (if applicable), and who can get around the opponents defenses the best. - which again, comes down to experience.
besides all that, there is a quick way to get around every single amazingly defensive template out there, and it's called Combat Medic 
(though the combat medic will probably die before his poison really destroys the mind of the opponent, the combat medic's UberFriend will probably still be alive to take advantage of it. hehe)
my .02 -defenses shouldn't be nerfed. as for balancing offenses vs defenses - well, there already are VERY consistant ways around defenses to make existing offenses very effective, so i don't really see the need for it. big topic...
if stacking defences becomes a thing of the past then yes you ill see more CHes again becouse the melee guys will not be able to tank as well and CH pets will still stack with whatever combat style you use.
as for the point of 3 rifleman/crafter/medic should take out one 250 point combat toon i completly agree depending on the situation.
Jeisyn wrote:
i'm thinkin, if i am willing to spend every available skill point on combat, why SHOULDN'T i be able to beat everyone who didn't?
Same question as before. If your 250 points beats anything less than 250 why shouldn't 300 points invested by 2 charracters be able to beat you?
i belive both of us here assumeing one on one PvP when we made our coments.
i for one dont want to be able to kill everyone at once but i do feel i should have a better then 50/50 chance to kill a singletoon that hasent spent every point on combat if i have
[quote]Jeisyn wrote:
i'm thinkin, if i am willing to spend every available skill point on combat, why SHOULDN'T i be able to beat everyone who didn't?
Same question as before. If your 250 points beats anything less than 250 why shouldn't 300 points invested by 2 charracters be able to beat you?[/quote]
for arguments' sake - you're saying that two players who spend 150 skill points magically multiply into oneentity, who spent 300, has 320 rifle accuracy, and has 145'ish ranged defense... that doesn't quite make sense to me..
in contrast,I could come up with a couple theoretical templates of less than 200 skill points that would take out a 250 SP player without much difficulty,
as i said before, my opinion is that Yes, there are 'uber' templates out there that are very resistant tocertainkinds of attacks - but their are holes, there are weaknesses, and it's up to the enemy to find them and work'em over.
Lurko wrote:
i belive both of us here assumeing one on one PvP when we made our coments.
Actually 1-on-1 dueling in my opinion is useless as a measuring stick. And balancing combat based on 1-on-1 in a game that is supposed to be about a galactic war would be an extremely poor approach.
Lurko wrote:
i for one dont want to be able to kill everyone at once but i do feel i should have a better then 50/50 chance to kill a singletoon that hasent spent every point on combat if i have
And I do not disagree. In fact my "off the top of thehead" proposal of best possible defense vs the best possible offense gving around 50% miss chance would pretty much guarantee that you win every 1-on-1 battle vs less combat oriented opponent. If rifleman accuracy bonus is the max offensive bonus possible and you face off against a rifleman with no other combat professions he will miss you 50% of his shots and you will hit with most of yours which all else (weapons, armor, buffs) being equal, you should kill him every time. On the other hand if you face off vs 2 riflemen, there is a roughly 50-50 chance of either side being victorious. Now that assumes that you are just blasting back and forth with rifles. If you fire as you come in close and nail one or both with the patented TKM dizzy/KD before swapping back to your rifle, you'll probably win about 80%-90% if the time anyway. Even a combination of one CM and one Rifleman should not bother you too much.
A bigger problem is that there is pretty much oneor two templates that will dominate combat. Which is a shame in a game that has 10 elite combat professions.