Pikeman Archive
Thread: Current Pikeman Issues
On the subject of Dodge/Block/Counter-Attack.. block should absorb 100% of the damage, just like the other twodefenses do.
If you've ever seen a polearm used in combat (such as a metal shod quarterstaff), you'll see that polearms are generally:
a) Balanced weapons.. you can attack equally as well with both ends once you learn to use the polearm correctly
b) Just as damaging as a sword or unarmed attack. MS Quarterstaff can punch through plate armor, break bones through heavy armor etc. It doesn't have to cut to do severe damage, it's does it's damage via leverage provided by the weilder.
c) Offer as much defense as a sword/unarmed attack. Sword users tend to defend with blocks on the flat of the sword (for no damage), dodge out of the way or block with a shield. Unarmed combatants generally block by intercepting the limb attached to the weapon (eg, grab the arm or block the leg with your own etc), or dodge out of the way (more often than sword users). Polearm users can use the full length of a 7 foot pole to shift it into the path of incoming attacks, and even counter attack easily due to the balanced nature of the polearm, as well as dodge out of the way.. they may look awkward, but the balanced nature of the weapon really helps in the defense.. just like carrying a staff when hiking really helps.. you don't even notice the weight once you are familiar with using one.
As it stands, I'm pretty happy with Pikeman myself.. there's nothing I particularly want changed, except for HAM cost on specials (having to be buffed to even use your weapon is a bit odd)and changing block to actually stop damage, as opposed to absorb damage (that's what unarmed block should do, unless you're some sort of guru who can sleep on a bed of nails). I get around the accuracy problem with Citros Snow Cake (+39 to accuracy), but it would be nice to use that as a boost but not a neccessity.
On the subject of Dodge/Block/Counter-Attack.. block should absorb 100% of the damage, just like the other twodefenses do.
If you've ever seen a polearm used in combat (such as a metal shod quarterstaff), you'll see that polearms are generally:
a) Balanced weapons.. you can attack equally as well with both ends once you learn to use the polearm correctly
b) Just as damaging as a sword or unarmed attack. MS Quarterstaff can punch through plate armor, break bones through heavy armor etc. It doesn't have to cut to do severe damage, it's does it's damage via leverage provided by the weilder.
c) Offer as much defense as a sword/unarmed attack. Sword users tend to defend with blocks on the flat of the sword (for no damage), dodge out of the way or block with a shield. Unarmed combatants generally block by intercepting the limb attached to the weapon (eg, grab the arm or block the leg with your own etc), or dodge out of the way (more often than sword users). Polearm users can use the full length of a 7 foot pole to shift it into the path of incoming attacks, and even counter attack easily due to the balanced nature of the polearm, as well as dodge out of the way.. they may look awkward, but the balanced nature of the weapon really helps in the defense.. just like carrying a staff when hiking really helps.. you don't even notice the weight once you are familiar with using one.
As it stands, I'm pretty happy with Pikeman myself.. there's nothing I particularly want changed, except for HAM cost on specials (having to be buffed to even use your weapon is a bit odd)and changing block to actually stop damage, as opposed to absorb damage (that's what unarmed block should do, unless you're some sort of guru who can sleep on a bed of nails). I get around the accuracy problem with Citros Snow Cake (+39 to accuracy), but it would be nice to use that as a boost but not a neccessity.
Apologies for double post.. it told me I had to have membership to post, and when I checked the post submission hadn't gone through, so I sent it again.. mods feel free to delete one =)
I posted this in another thread.
I believe that, in concept, this is a very good game. I like a lot of the core concepts and I anticipate SOE expanding on them and making them better.
I like the difference between dodge, block and counterattack, in concept. The riflemen and pikemen, burdened by bearing the heavier weapons, can only block an incoming attack while the lighter fencers and pistoleers can move out of the way altogether. In game, I think this concept works well enough.
Counterattack, however, does not live up its name. It inflicts no damage in return and, while in theory in quite different than simply getting out of the way, it works in funtion the same as Dodge.
This should not be so. I am no master of game balance, but a suggestion would be:
Dodge: 100% damage prevented on success
Counterattack: 50% damage negated with damage on opponent (in range) on sucess
Block: 75% damage prevented on success
This, I believe, is a balanced means of handling the three defense types and would, to me, make carbineer more appealing. It would also improve the defense abilities of the pikeman, although it helps riflemen (which I don't think they need. Urg.).
Sure there are reasons for having 3 different defense types that do the same thing:
a) They are spread across 3 professions (with TKA meant to have all 3 at a lower ability, but it's broken?)
b) They represent the most common way of avoiding damage with the weapon type they are attached to (Arguably, I know.. )
If each melee profession had all 3 defense types, then that would be a reason to differentiate them into avoiding various types of attacks, but because each melee profession only has 1 defense type, it is unbalanced to make one of them inferior for no good reason.
I realise also that a lot of people like to number crunch, min/max and template characters.. but another perfectly valid reason to keep 3 defense types that work the same way is how they look when activated.. a fencer jumps out of the way, a pikeman lifts their weapon into the path of the blow (I haven't seen a swordsman counter attack, so I don't know what the animation is for that). How the game looks is just as important to number crunching.. otherwise we may as well get a pen and paper and a calculator and provide ourselves with hours of fun...
I'm all for variation. However, what would be the rationale for keeping block as completely inferior to dodge? I do not want to continue to see a situation such as what we have now where we not only have the weakest melee/ranged defenses, but also a secondary defense that is half as effective as the others with nothing to make up for it. If block stopped state effects or activated more often, then things would be reasonable. Just being nothing but less effective isn't cool.
antares
master pikeman
Block with high toughness= bearable.
Block with the lowest toughness = no no.
)Pikemen are the trained defenders with the ability to control crowds of enemieswith careful sweeps of their long reach weapons.
antares_Kauri wrote:
However, what would be the rationale for keeping block as completely inferior to dodge?
If we (at the end of the combat passes) had something to make up for the total inferiority of defenses, block and toughness both, then sure, block could be inferior. Otherwise, your claim makes no sense. If heavy swordsmen end up doing the most damage and we are stuck with middle-ground offense and still the worst defense withnothing else to show for it, then block should not at all be inferior.
antares
master pikeman