Pikeman Archive
Thread: Pikemen abandoned again by Dev's
Ciao wrote:
LIneage 2, cant wait to get into the open beta, you can keep your character upon release too. YAY.
Message Edited by Ciao on 03-28-2004 02:41 PM
Anyone else try the Lineage 2 beta yet? It's kinda like Diablo, with less clicking, and more cleavage. For god's sake, it's like the Japanese gods of hentai flooded into the game, and were held back barely by the censors. The more clothing you wear as a female, the less your avatar shows. Bring your camera angle down, and get a nice panty shot.
And what the hell is with the dwarven women? They look like 12 year old humans, with, yes, complete panty shots. I swear the Koreans programming this one are a bunch of social deviants...
Anyway, I'm not impressed. SWG is far more fun than "double click enemy, go get another beer" (even if getting that next beer is kinda nice). And being able to keep your beta character on release... no good can come of this.
Incidentally I had a like discussion last night with another Master Pikeman after a run at the Force Crystal Caves (no we didn't loot a single thing). I understand and sympathise every trouble and complaint we have to offer, hell I did not see any of the serious problems until I got to Master myself and started going against the more serious opponents.
However there are a few things to keep in mind before throwing stones at everyone:
- As every self respecting MMORPG, SWG is new, without a single expansion (where the heavy fixes come in usually) and only a year of life to the day. Meaning that it has lots and lots of bugs that will be fixed only with patience and persistence on the level of the players and cooperation and will on the level of the DEVs.
- Since it is a game where we pay to play we are all customers, not just players. On that extent, sadly or not, the majority of the customers call in the shots of what gets changed first or not, the minorities' only option is to keep voicing their complaints until a new and fresh DEV comes around with the vision of helping the players before he's sucked up in the customer support mentality. Which one of you thinks the 200 Pikemen are going to be heard over the 1000 TKAs? (not actual numbers, just for the sake of analogy)
- We must acknowledge that while there are many many things we'd like changed about our profession and the game in whole, there are other MMORPGs that don't have one tenth of what we get and still have a warm and supporting playerbase. True we are not supposed to just weather everything but that's what the forums are for, we keep voicing our complaints in serious arguementative ways that cannot be mistaken for simple whining. Don't get me wrong, I whine and I whine enough when I get annoyed but still whining usually gets no results.
- As the DEVs and the Designers have thinking capabilities of their own (hard to believe at times but still
) they tend to have some grand vision about the game they meticulously press on without pausing to watch the after effects of such changes only until it is too late, things are in and players are screaming to the top of their lungs.
Yes, bugs will be fixed but they constantly make sweeping changes to professions, well at least some of them. The game seems to go through evolutions and you cant play the character you want as things just change tooooooo much. I am not talking about fixing bugs but the changes to the core system.
Legwand, I love this game too. That is why I am here complaining. If I didnt I wouldnt be here. I am just taking a different perspective, the pessimistic one. Anyway, you know me as Roboute Guilliman and I have started another account (back up to two now) and SHE is named Concubine (yes!!!) and she is tooo!!!! I will have her become my Armorer/Weaponsmith/Artisan. If it works I will probably get another "female" to add to my harem and she will be my chef/dancer/muscian. Lastly, I am thinking of getting a Doctor/BE to round out my buffs and give my food buffs that extra umph.
However, back to the Pikeman deal. I am probably going to give up my Master Pike status and go Heavy Sword instead. However I will keep some of the accuracy and speed mod branches from the pike line. This way I can still use my fire and poison mind dots then follow up with mind bleed then go on to Head Hit 3. Of course I hope to be using a Scythe while doing the last two. I hate to give up on Pike but with the Defense cap changes my template is again not efficient. I have to change something.
If not, I might just go crafter or leave. I am still waiting for L2 to arrive and will reallyl see what that is all about.
Legwand wrote:
Gunman21 wrote:
My point wasn't that it fixed accuracy, itwas they did change something for us, wheras the poster made it seem like we hadn't been given anything at all.
And from your description, it sounded as if they person you were fighting had a stacked template. That affects accuracy more than the modifiers do as far as I can tell from my experiences in pvp. Even with +0/+33/+0 mods, I still miss quite a lot against stacked templates, whereas I hit most of the time vs templates that arn't stacked.
Message Edited by Gunman21 on 03-28-2004 02:48 AM
No stacked template. Master Fencer/Doctor. This was a few nights ago as well. Not before the defenses nerf.
I don't have this kind of problem in PvE. Only in PvP.
Have you tried stun legwand?
I once dueled a TKA and was missing until I landed stun then I started to land everything. I don't PvP much but I do use stun as much as I can ni PvE
Reading between the lines, I saw this:
- We have a new system, but it doesn't actually work yet. We have issues that we just haven't resolved.
- Introducing the new system would cause more problems than it would solve.
- We learned from the crafting "fix" that the player base will rebel if we put forth changes of this magnitude.
- Balancing will require nerfing some professions and enhancing others. This is a big problem, as most players will get "nerfed", and to actually make the combat balance, we need to sell the changes to the community.
The devs really are in a big bind here. Little tweaks can't fix the system. A big tweak will upset the player base. A full revision won't work and would only upset the player base more. Yet they can't leave it alone, as that won't work either.
Everyone is stuck in this. Fencers want damage output. Pikemen want to hit. Swordsman want defenses. We all want to be "fair" compared to each other. That's a big order to fill. It's a very big order indeed.
Earlier on, the devs fixed things through big changes. At this point, they are favoring smaller changes. They tweak something conservatively, see how it works on live, then decide on the next change. that's hard for a quick change, but leads to a more tested set of changes.
atimes wrote:
Legwand wrote:
Gunman21 wrote:
My point wasn't that it fixed accuracy, itwas they did change something for us, wheras the poster made it seem like we hadn't been given anything at all.
And from your description, it sounded as if they person you were fighting had a stacked template. That affects accuracy more than the modifiers do as far as I can tell from my experiences in pvp. Even with +0/+33/+0 mods, I still miss quite a lot against stacked templates, whereas I hit most of the time vs templates that arn't stacked.
Message Edited by Gunman21 on 03-28-2004 02:48 AM
No stacked template. Master Fencer/Doctor. This was a few nights ago as well. Not before the defenses nerf.
I don't have this kind of problem in PvE. Only in PvP.
Have you tried stun legwand?
I once dueled a TKA and was missing until I landed stun then I started to land everything. I don't PvP much but I do use stun as much as I can ni PvE
Brother, I tried all kinds of state changes. Stun, dizzy, knockdown etc.. None of it had any effect.
Its not just with this one incident either. This happens with all fencers. I don't know what it is.
Vema has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Every profession in this game has members bitching about something - and not all of those complaints are compatible with the complaints and whines of others. Simply put, people from Profession A wanta givenchange,which directly conflicts with the desires of people from Profession B. Certain changes are givens, but most such changes are small - hence, the reason we're getting small changes over time.
I will, however, concede that the professions with the largest userbase (TK, for example, and CH before we got nerfed into oblivion for the 'combat rebalance' that's not coming) DO have the loudest voice, and the Devs seem to listen to them the most. But this is a business, people -it isn't abalanced system. It's basically a democracy, with the largest profession userbases having the most voice in that system. That's the way it is, and that's not gonna change - the money says what's top priority, and the money comes from the people playing - andfew of them are playing Pikeman.The devs will implement certain alterations, though it takes months or longer for them to identify them, much less implement them. The only way you're gonna be assured a loud voice is to either join the majority profession(s), or quit. And then only when people start quitting en masse will the collectively have a loud enough voice to be heard.
Bottom line is, the devs can only listen to the players so much - they can't give in to every wish (or even most of them), or there would be anarchy from month to month. And nobody said this would ever be a 'fair' game. It's still broken, which is a different problem altogether, but the devs have to use some individual discretion in determining what exactly needs to be done - listening to the people will only favor those who cry the loudest. They've got to determine the balance, and listen to feedback and tweak it as appropriate.
Give it time ... a year hasn't done it, so maybe another will help.... /shrug
Message Edited by Omegaplex on 03-30-2004 12:58 PM