Pikeman Archive

No it does not. The power hammer has by default a higher rating than the LVA. You have a speed sliced power hammer that has a faster speed and a higher damage rating than the LVA you are using. Yet for some insane reason you seem surprised thatthis faster more damaging power hammerPower Hammer does more damage than the LVA that you have.

It's not rocket science man.

Be default the power hammer has a higher damage rating but a slower speed. It like the LVA is medium armor piercing. So by default the Power Hammer will do more damage than the LVA but the LVA will attack faster. The power hammer you have is sliced for speed so it has a higher damage rating and and a faster speed. That is the simple reason why it's doing more damage.

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atimes wrote:

No it does not. The power hammer has by default a higher rating than the LVA. You have a speed sliced power hammer that has a faster speed and a higher damage rating than the LVA you are using. Yet for some insane reason you seem surprised thatthis faster more damaging power hammerPower Hammer does more damage than the LVA that you have.

It's not rocket science man.

Be default the power hammer has a higher damage rating but a slower speed. It like the LVA is medium armor piercing. So by default the Power Hammer will do more damage than the LVA but the LVA will attack faster. The power hammer you have is sliced for speed so it has a higher damage rating and and a faster speed. That is the simple reason why it's doing more damage.

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You could be reading the post wrong as well, what I think he is trying to say in his post is that a speed sliced powerhammer attacks faster and has a better damage range than the LVA, that LVA started faster and less damaging, and when it was sliced for damage was still slower and less damaging than the powerhammer. So in the end the powerhammer ended up faster and more damaging. Personally I think this has to do with the way the two weapons were made, I am willing to bet that 2 weapons made in the same way would start to equal out more.

/bump, maybe see this compiled with antares and sticky it?

well then shoga that's the fault of the slice not the weapons themselves.

No, as a Master Weaposnmith anda 4/3/3/3 pikeman he's absolutely correct:

Power hammers are slightly slower but do much more damage base than LVA's, using the same quality materials, and power hammers hit more frequently.

The slice of 468 is at the high end for a weapon which as an advanced build with great materials (shock 1000 steel on shadowfire now), best slice i've had is490,is maybe slightly greater/less than the unsliced damage of the PH is absurd. The dam sliced powerhammer can hit 580+ damage.

The fact that it hits more frequently (-46 base vs -54 if I'm remebering correctly) is salt in the wound.

The last straw is the fact that our special attacks with pike do around 2200/hit vs powerhammers who i watch combat logs hit for 6k or more means that they havea better special attack multiplier.

And as for speed...well when you get to70%+ speed bonus and you add on speed armor/clothign enhancers then you reach a point where both weapons are at max cap for speed anyway...and the powerhammer is doing much more dam/swing in the same time period.

I understand all that.

The point I'm trying to make is if a weapon has a higer base damage (the power hammer) than the LVA and he has it speed sliced so that it has a higher base damage and a faster speed then why in the world are people so surprised that it's doing more damage.

Basically this thread is like saying "OMG the LVA does more damage and is faster than the wood pole given at novice brawler"

well duh

Yeah it hits more and that is an entire different issue for an entire different set of threads.

Hey on another note since you are a weaponsmith and a pikeman try to convice your correspondant that the horrible accuracy modifiers on the LVA make using the weapon a pain. He seems to think it's "working as intended"

If he's complaning that the base unsliced LVA should do more damage than a the base unsliced Power Hammer that's another issue and he should have been more clear in his arguments.

It sounds like he was saying "the power hammer has a higher base damage and this speed sliced one is faster than my LVA and IT DOES MORE DAMAGE HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE"

Hm, lot of angst I'm reading here

1) My LVA willnever do as much damage asmy Power Hammer - sliced or not. Chance of LVA superiority in damage per swing: zero.

2)My Power Hammer will ALWAYS be more damaging, and on TOP of that is faster, if the LVA got damage sliced (which most are).

The BASE PH is unwieldly and slow, but has gargantuan damage. The BASE LVA has both mediocre damage AND mediocre speed. It will never be superior to the PH in BOTH speed and damage, while many PH's ARE superior in BOTH categories.

My point is that an LVA will NEVER be both faster and more damaging thana PH, while it's not very hard (at all) to get a PH that IS both more damaging and faster than an LVA.

It's an equality issue that I'm pointing out. Odds are, if you're a Pikeman, you're swinging slower, and it's nearly certain that you're doing less damage, too, than your Swordsman buddy.

Bottom Line: Swordsman has a much better top-end weapon than Pikeman.

Clear as mud? ~J

sure it's clear.

It's clear as mud that you have an opinion about weapons from different professions.

Even though I miss alot my "medicore" LVA has a damage rating of 4.5 speed and "medicore" damage of around 450.

Man if that's medicore I can't wait until you tell the devs to give us a good one.

The main weakness (and strength) of the vibrolance is its damage type (electricity). Its biggest weakness as a novice elite profession weapon is the LVA is AP 2 and the VL is AP1. The only time I pull out my LV is vs those creatures with Kinetic 30-40% AP1 or 0 with 0%-15% electricity resist.

MAINY creatures are resistitant to electrical btw.

The LVA has proved to be a far better choice in most situations, the VL is a more situational weapon.

atimes,

In comparison to a PH, our LVA IS mediocre...it's not like we're comparing apples and oranges here, we're talking about the best weapons available to each melee class, in that comparison, the LVA get's shorted.

At master level in both classes:

Speed: irrelevant, both at cap.

damage: PH by 75 points at least, multiplied by slice, powerup and specials adds up to:

• LVA hitting for 3200


• PH hitting for 6500


• PH more accurate to boot.


• Hams irrelevant if buffed/medic skills

That's the issue, and it's valid...both professions have equivalant weapon skills except their best weapons are wildly unbalanced... and actually i think swordsman special attacks have some larger modifiers than pikeman's which makes no sense.

Solution: Do NOT nerf swordsman, just maybe give us an x5-6 attack like the swordsman, or nudge LVA's up there a bit in min/max damage or something. Or make VL's ap2 or stun damage.

Again I feel these are opinions.

Look at what you are saying: "after slices, power up", blah blah blah. You are adding variables to the equation. You can make a case for any weapon at that point. "My damage sliced T-21 with speed power ups is more damaging than myspeed slicedelite carbine. What gives?" See what I mean?

If I have a dmg sliced LVA and a speed sliced PH and the LVA has a higher damage rating than the PH then guess what. The LVA will hit harder because it has a higher damage rating. Am I right?

You are also talking about multipliers etc etc. If that is the case then make this an issue of specials multipliers instead of an arguement between 2 weapons.

Another point is this. The speed DOES matter because a master swordsman doesn't hit the speed cap (and neither does a master pikeman)

A master swordsman + master brawler has +80 two hand speed. On a power hammer with a 5.4 speed (average) that equates to 1.08 attack speed (the +80 means an 80% reduction). Factor in special delays and that is NOT the speed cap. A master swordsman won't be spamming two hand hit 3 every second. If the swordsman does not have master brawler that's 1.35 speed (+75 speed)

Contrast that to a master pikeman + master brawler (+80 pike speed) on a 4.5 speed LVA (again average speed) that's .9 attack speed. Factor in delays and the pikeman will attack faster.

You basically have faster attacks with a weapon with a lower damage rating vs slower attacks with a weapon with a higher damage rating. So to say theirs is "better" is an again your opinion based on these facts.

The original poster basically said the PH is faster and more damaging than the LVA with isn't true.

A speed sliced PH vs a damage sliced LVAmay do more raw damage but again you are adding variables to the equation. What about a speed sliced LVA vs a speed sliced PH. What about a dmg sliced PH vs a damage sliced LVA?

Again the original poster has a LVA that has a slower speed AND a lower damage rating than his Power Hammer and he's acting surprised the PH is hitting for more and attacking faster. All I'm saying is basically "well duh"

Saying "their weapon is better than ours" is once again your opinion.

"Again the original poster has a LVA that has a slower speed AND a lower damage rating than his Power Hammer and he's acting surprised the PH is hitting for more and attacking faster."

What in the world are you talking about?

I didn't say I'm surprised - but it IS a FREAKIN' PROBLEM! WHY should the best weapon of one melee professionbe sohandily superior to the best weapon of another? **THAT** was my point.

ONE individualPower Hammer can be both Faster AND Harder Hitting - in the same individual Hammer - than a top-flight LVA. The INVERSE IS NEVER TRUE! EVER!

There is no 'well duh,' as you put it, or calculus involved. It's a simple statement of fact. And it's not how the professions are supposed to relate to one another.

Since I'm sureanother misguided opposition is brewing, let's break down the *FOUR* possible scenarios ofmy point. That's right, there are only four - this is a simple Matrix comparing both weapons under all slicing conditions - it's an xx, oo, ox,xo scenario - all four possibilities. Follow me?

Both wielders in said scenario are Masters, and no powerups are applicable. The slices are assumed to be identical for purposes of this argument (no, in-game they will rarely be, but a comparison requires known and constant variables, and the in-game variations are irrelevant in making this point, because we are talking potential):

1) A) LVA is base damage, speed sliced B) Power Hammer base damage, speed sliced

2) A) LVA damage sliced, base speed B) Power Hammer damage sliced, base speed

3) A) LVA isDAMAGE sliced, base speed B) Power Hammer is base damage, SPEED sliced

(THIS scenario was the topic of my original post)

4) A) LVA is base damage,SPEED sliced B) Power Hammer isDAMAGE sliced, base speed

Given those four possibilities, which weapon would *you* rather have under each scenario? (Hint: the higher-speed cap (slower swings)of the lower-damaging LVA is severely imparing)

Is anybody else seeing this pattern, or am I just completely ass-backwards?

All else (skills, slices, powerups) being equal, the Power Hammeris the better weapon, and it doesn't take a slide rule to figurethat out.

I'm not bitching, or whining, or crying nerf on the PH - it's a great weapon and doesn't need alteration.

I AMsaying that there is an obvious inequality between the two hardest-hitting melee weapons (and most powerful of each respective profession) in thegame, and that, while Pikeman *already* have enough to worry about with speed and accuracy issues, they're ALSO not hitting as hard as their counterparts. They're *screwed* every way you look at it. They miss the most, they swing the slowest, and the don't hit the hardest even when they AREable to strike.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I think that's a freakin problem. Pikemen, when compared to Swordsmen, are not functioing properly. Hell, they're not functioning properly when compared to anybody...

As if nobody knew thatPikemen need helplol... I had*no*idea such a plain idea and simple post wasgoing to be soballooned and misinterpreted and argued over ~J