Pikeman Archive

Message Edited by Dynastar on 04-08-2004 05:03 PM

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Lynisx wrote:

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

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Lynisx wrote:

There is nothing 'wrong' with Pikeman, and in some cases you WILL be better then other melee professions.

That said, 99% of the time you will find other melee elites outshining you slightly.

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Haha....you obviously haven't been a fencer before......defensively, yes fencers outshine any melee class.....everything else from fencer is childsplay compared to pikeman.....pike's outdamage fencers 3 - 1......just they only have 1 damage type while fencers have 2....but pike's get AP2 weapons and fencers only get 1 very weak AP1 weapon.....it kind of balances out just a small bit...if you want to call fencer damage of 1300 (scatterhit2) pikeman damage 3000 (polearmhit2) balanced...LOL

But your right, there is nothing wrong with pikeman.....

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Go duel a Master Fencer and come back and tell me who won.

Yes, I have played a fencer (although admitly not to master) and I am aware they are considerably weaker in some respects to Pikeman, however your examples of damage based on Polearmhit2 and scatterhit2 are somewhat off, given that with the low weapon speeds on fencer they basicly hit their speed cap without needing +mods and therefore their hit3 is more DPS then our hit3 without skill mods (again, I have never been Master Fencer, so this information is subject to fauliblity) and again, Fencers are far stronger in PvP then we are.

I'm not saying we're better then them or worse off then them, really both Fencers and Pikeman need some help. It's just IMO Pikeman is slightly weaker on a whole then all melee professions with the exception of a few cases(slaughtering 10 tuskens in seconds with a 500 max VL while your TKM friend is struggling on his second is fun).

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Basically, I was speaking from my own personal experience. The numbers I posted are the numbers I normally get with each Special from each perspective profession. I was a master fencer for approximately 4 months and I know exactly what they are capable of even after the def stacking nerf.Comparing my experiences in both PVP and PVE, but mainly PVE between my fencer days and my pikeman days is where I came up with the above post. I'm strickly talking about offensively and as I said, fencers are better defenesively and pikeman are better offensively. I compared those two specials because I wanted to show how a level 2 special from pike did better than a level 3 special from fencer, actually one of the most powerful specials from fencer. Also, I need to correct myself....I meant to say one-handhit3 not scatterhit3 as there is no scatterhit3... You get one-handhit3 at master fencer and polearmhit2 at novice pikeman....yet polearmhit2 does more damage.

Anyway, I've come to the conlcussion that the weapons are primarily what makes the difference. My best fencer weapon (a gaderiffi stick with 330 something damage, no AP, kinetic damage) is inferior to my pike LVA (486 max damage, AP2, kinetic damage) no powerups on either, both are sliced though......a fencers stun baton or vibro blade (ap1) can't even reach 300 max damage without powerups, acklay bones, so I can't even compare them......also, I've never had a stun baton made with acklay bones....so I don't know how good they can actually get....but they still can't be better than a LVA.

As far as the Dps reference you made.....that is misleading a bit because both professions have to be measure in damage in a certain time frame when your talking about damage before resist. If your talking damage after resist, then both professions have to be using the same damage type to truely measure dps after resist. One can't use a stun baton that the mob might be vulnerable to and the other use a Vibro Lance (electricity) that the mob has 20% resist to. Remember, dps of a weapon and final dps after you factor in your speed mod, the speed mod of the special and the amount of damage you do after resist and armor....are two different things. A fencers weapon can easily be doing more dps than a pikes on averagebut if the pike uses a special that has a 2.0 speed mod and the fencer uses a special with a 4.0 speed mod.....the pike can have a slower speedmod than the fencer and still be faster with his attack depending on the speed rating of the weapon. Of course you have to factor in the damage each weapon does also.....even then a slow LVA is more powerful than any fast fencer weapon or any fencer weapon period. Even my 330 damage gaderiffi with a 33% powerup (would be 439 damage) won't reach my LVA's max damage without a powerup (486).....take into account the LVA has ap2 and the gaderiffi doesn't, you can then add another 50% bonus to the LVA over the gaderiffi.

So in the end, pikes are stronger offensively in terms of damage dealt.....even with all that said, everything balances out in the long run....you just have to realize that you have to sacrifice something to get what you want....problem with this game is that a lot of people seem to be in the mind set that every profession should be equal both offensively and defensively. Why else do you hear complaints that pike's defense is the worse among melee professions, or pistoleers are the weakest ranged profession.....some profession has to be weakest, some profession has to have the least defense......butthey are not happy and want to cry nerf becuase they picked a profession that doesn't have defense to suit their skills......but yet they wanted that uber offense and can't compensate for a lack of defense....and vice versa.

Also remember that professions are supposed to be stacked, so you get from other professions what your main profession lacks...and in this situation, you can't honestly compare any one profession with another when they are stacked with something else, unless the stacked profession has no effect on the main profession in a certain area....like smuggler doesn't effect pikeman at all.

Message Edited by HardwiredXMan on 04-09-2004 07:41 PM

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

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Lynisx wrote:

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

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Lynisx wrote:

There is nothing 'wrong' with Pikeman, and in some cases you WILL be better then other melee professions.

That said, 99% of the time you will find other melee elites outshining you slightly.

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Haha....you obviously haven't been a fencer before......defensively, yes fencers outshine any melee class.....everything else from fencer is childsplay compared to pikeman.....pike's outdamage fencers 3 - 1......just they only have 1 damage type while fencers have 2....but pike's get AP2 weapons and fencers only get 1 very weak AP1 weapon.....it kind of balances out just a small bit...if you want to call fencer damage of 1300 (scatterhit2) pikeman damage 3000 (polearmhit2) balanced...LOL

But your right, there is nothing wrong with pikeman.....

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Go duel a Master Fencer and come back and tell me who won.

Yes, I have played a fencer (although admitly not to master) and I am aware they are considerably weaker in some respects to Pikeman, however your examples of damage based on Polearmhit2 and scatterhit2 are somewhat off, given that with the low weapon speeds on fencer they basicly hit their speed cap without needing +mods and therefore their hit3 is more DPS then our hit3 without skill mods (again, I have never been Master Fencer, so this information is subject to fauliblity) and again, Fencers are far stronger in PvP then we are.

I'm not saying we're better then them or worse off then them, really both Fencers and Pikeman need some help. It's just IMO Pikeman is slightly weaker on a whole then all melee professions with the exception of a few cases(slaughtering 10 tuskens in seconds with a 500 max VL while your TKM friend is struggling on his second is fun).

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(snip)

As far as the Dps reference you made.....that is misleading a bit because both professions have to be measure in damage in a certain time frame when your talking about damage before resist. If your talking damage after resist, then both professions have to be using the same damage type to truely measure dps after resist. One can't use a stun baton that the mob might be vulnerable to and the other use a Vibro Lance (electricity) that the mob has 20% resist to. Remember, dps of a weapon and final dps after you factor in your speed mod, the speed mod of the special and the amount of damage you do after resist and armor....are two different things. A fencers weapon can easily be doing more dps than a pikes on averagebut if the pike uses a special that has a 2.0 speed mod and the fencer uses a special with a 4.0 speed mod.....the pike can have a slower speedmod than the fencer and still be faster with his attack depending on the speed rating of the weapon. Of course you have to factor in the damage each weapon does also.....even then a slow LVA is more powerful than any fast fencer weapon or any fencer weapon period. Even my 330 damage gaderiffi with a 33% powerup (would be 439 damage) won't reach my LVA's max damage without a powerup (486).....take into account the LVA has ap2 and the gaderiffi doesn't, you can then add another 50% bonus to the LVA over the gaderiffi.

(snip)

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Point.

As I said, it's not that big a issue, IMHO Pikeman is slightly worse off the the othermelee professions by the smallest degree, but it's not something I'll argue.

All in all, I completly agree with the other posts that Pikeman is a awesome and highly enjoyable class. And you will find yourself having fun IMHO if you decide to take it and stay with it.