Pikeman Archive
Thread: The true pikeman
Daros
Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:26 am
#14
BalexSlicer wrote:
And if I designed the class we would be designed to fight on mounts :shrug:
I'm sure Leggy's going to have fun with this one. 
Lycids
Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:11 pm
#15
Very true , the pikeman was the most fearsome melee opponet in their day but then something happened! GUNPOWDER! Followed by ranged weapons, by then even archers where out of jobs.
Nisru
Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:54 pm
#16
This is my first post on the forums and id just like to say that ive been listening to all the problems of the pikeman and i went ahead and mastered the class to check it out. I have noticed a couple things and yes the class does need some serious fixing but after playing through it, HOLY CRAP there is just no other class for me. Yes it cant compare in pvp to any other melee fighters or in pve to swordsman, but it just has something about it that when u get to like it, u jsut dont wanna quit. HURRAH!!! to all the fellow pikeman out there, another has just joined ur ranks.
GatsuApiwra
Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:51 pm
#17
Aye, polearms is amazing 
I totally agree that pikeman is an inaccurate title, like CarpaBob i play my character as a Martialartistwielding a Bo-staff (currently masterTKA and Pikes).
Master staffman makes more sense, but I guess we'll have to endure.
da5in
Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:12 pm
#18
Could someone clarify something for me? Earlier in the discussion there was a comment about getting Carbine for Counter-attack - I was under the impression that Block was our defense mod, and that you could only counterattack with a 2 handed weapon or carbine equipped...? Am I mistaken?
Krul
Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:41 pm
#19
You are correct each profession dependant secondary line of defense only works with a profession dependant weapon equipped. So swordsman and carbineers only counterattack with swords or carbines, pikeman only block with polearms, pistoleers dodge with pistols etc.
Message Edited by Krul on 07-27-2004 10:42 PM
Brennox
Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:19 am
#20
Arcdischarge wrote:historical note
A lone pikeman (even a superior one) would almost certainly be slain by a single competent cavalryman. Now everyone should know that cavalry was sure death for infantry, which were nearly helpless against it, except for the pike. The value of the pike against cavalry was in the ability to form a tightly knit square of pikes facing outwards, with either archers or rifleman (pick your century) behind. Time and time again it was shown that horses, no matter how well trained or driven, shy away from the pikes at the last moment, making a well-formed square a safe-haven for infantry. However, a single gap in the square could mean death for everyone inside. Failure to quickly replace a fallen pikeman or to squeeze down the square would allow penetration by cavalry, and the resulting disorganization from even a single mounted warrior meant breakdown of the square and death to infantry. Even well trained infantry could be provoked into breaking their lines at the sight of charging horses, and sometimes did.
This battleground between pikeman (infantry) and cavalry formed the basis for military strategy & tactics on land from the Dark Ages to (arguably) 1800.
So following that logic it would make the best sense to have pikemen be able to create a defensive position from which they cant do as much damage as normal.
For instance have center of balance give REALLY good defense modifiers, but at the same time lower attack to less then half, or something like that, since you cant have as good a pike barrier if youre swinging your pike about. (or maybe you can but for balance sake).
Raanan
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:13 am
#21
you do realise how bloody long the pikes you speak of were right? There is no way in hell they would be swung around like we do ours. Pikemen back then were a defense against cavalry and cavalry alone. Swordsman could easily evade a pike and kill the piker. However, lancers(not the correct name but I forget what it is)such as you see in films like Troy were very powerful in close range combat and that is what we emulate. Not pikemen.
Y0ungPadawan
Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:06 am
#22
Good post - i agree totally that a counter attack should be a thing pikeman get. It would be more sensible to swap block and counterattack from pike to 2hs. It almost makes me wonder if they mixed them up by accident (looking at attacks etc) - pistol/fencer go, sword/rifle would go if sword had block and pike/carb would go if they both had counter attack....
- i agree totally that a counter attack should be a thing pikeman get. It would be more sensible to swap block and counterattack from pike to 2hs. It almost makes me wonder if they mixed them up by accident (looking at attacks etc) - pistol/fencer go, sword/rifle would go if sword had block and pike/carb would go if they both had counter attack.... One point i noticed from some posters - getting counter attack from carbine wont help you in the slightest with your pike equiped as the modifiers from block, dodge and counter attack have been proven to be linked to the weapons from rifle/pike, pistol/1handed and carb/2handed respectively. basically, your counter attack mod will only come into play if you have a carbine or 2 handed sword equiped - you will have no extra chance to counter with a pike in your hands. Thats how i rememebr it anyway... and i haven't heard they changed anything...
Morgue
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:49 pm
#23
I think this post is very good. I like people that do their homework.
Pikes - 12 to 14 long. Weilded by a man using two hands, butt of weapon shoved into the ground with the right foot placed behind it. Used in ranks of 2 to 3 rows deep. No this was not weilded as a spear. But definately dangerous to cavalry.
Similar use of weapons were the spear and pilumn, the later being the Roman weapon of choice. Used 2 handed and weilded in ranks of 2 deep. Pilums and short spears were weilded with shields.
Everyone knows their history well, even if we are poor spellers. But I think we missed a few weapons that actually define our role and capture what we are looking for.
The Staff, by far, is the most under rated weapon as per the prior posts. They are just plain nasty in the hands of an expert. Especially an Unarmored expert.... Speed is key, Strength secondary.
Now the weapons I refer to are - The Pole-axe, The Halberd, The Glaive, The Bill, and the miriad of other variants of these weapons. Massive damage, good blocking, and very dangerous to armored opponants. As they were designed to penetrate armor and pull knights to the ground, or trip an opponant already on the ground. Our Long Vibro-axe (my favorite) is a glorified Halberd.
This was just added information to this thread, and I agree with what should be done to help our cause. I am almost a Master of the Pike and some people laugh, mostly TKA's but I love the class. Expecially if you have ever rescued a partner in your group being attacked by multiple foes, you run into the group, target one and area attack and watch everything fall over. Your friend peels themselves from the fray as all are turned on you, then the hurting begins! As you systematically destroy the mob!
And I am not even a Master Brawler. Smuggler / Pikeman / Pistoleer / Scout. Just fun to play.
Hopefully we get some help.
V'rokk
pTemp
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:55 pm
#24
I haven't finished reading the first article in this thread, but I couldn't resist jumping in and make a note when I read up to the part about counter-attack. You get a noticeable counter attacking when you get polearm counter attack above 5. I currently have +8 to counter attack, I believe. And I could counter attack about once every 5 attacks from Jantas/Mokks and 1 in 20 from Nightsister protector. So get your hands on the AA or CA.
Y0ungPadawan
Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:12 am
#25
theres such thing as polearm counter attack? i know block used to say counter attack in the combat window - is that what you're on about? or am i missing something here?
da5in
Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:21 am
#26
I am now confused also. I read a post that said that Polearm Counter Attack was removed from the game during beta: i.e. it doesn't work.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=csystems&message.id=7076
The counter-attack defense mod is for two handed weapons, and the Polearm Counter Attack shouldn't appear in the game (although I have an LVA with Polearm Counter Attack myself - so I'm not sure why it is floating around if it was "removed during beta"). Can someone clarify?