Pikeman Archive

Thread: Hybrid Profession??

CLab2021
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:36 pm
#14






Bihlbo wrote:
By your logic EVERY class in a Hybrid profession. His statement was too vague to interpret what he was trying to say. The PIKEMAN class is NOT a hybrid profession. If he wanted to say what you were implying he would have made it clearer.


You know, it is possible to make mistakes. Maybe TH should have used a better word like "dependant", and yet, just didn't. Thunderheart started off on these forums the same as you and me, just posting and doing his best. Now he has to coordinate all of the professions, all of the Correspondants, and talk to the Dev team, keep on top of game issues, and get in some play time. You think he's not going to make an occasional mistake? He probably does more typing concerning this game in a morning than you do in a week.


In this situation he madea minor mistake of using a word in such a way that, while not incorrect, is confusing because it's easier for us to understand this word only in terms of game lingo. But come on, it's not that hard to read the rest of that answer and understand what he's talking about. You people who are attacking him, calling him names, claiming that he should be fired, and generally holding him up to a level of responsibility that you yourselves could not meet are not only being unfair, you're being rediculously negative.


Ever read Spider-Man comics? J. J. Jameson hates Spidey. Why? Because he sees this guy doing the stuff that JJ's always wanted to do, to be a hero and to be in the spotlight. And he resents that this other guy gets to do it seemingly out of the blue, without putting in all the hard work that JJ feels has entitled him to a little bit of glory. So he attacks Spidey the only way he knows how, just to make himself feel better, rather than admitting to himself that he doesn't have what it takes.


Take a guess as to why I brought that up.







Minor mistake??...your joking right...he obvously thinks, or thought we are a Hybird....thats part of the basics of Profession how can you mess that up...if you do IMO your inept...


LOL...yea I read Spidey...nice JJ refence..Im sure a few people fit into that, me no..I don't envy him, Im know his job is lots of hard work....but With great power comes great responisiblity ....he took the job on and has fallen short of expectations...


He has made many mistakes before which I let slide my self, this one just toped the cake..




J.I.A.S.F.C
GabrielsSword
Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:11 am
#15



Bihlbo wrote:
We are an Elite Profession, you are correct, Hybrids are Profession that require 2 professions in oder to train in another.
Stop whining about this, you're wrong.

There is no reason at all to get bend out of shape about "I want to stress that Pikeman is a Hybrid Profession". To you "hybrid profession" means that it requires more than one profession's skill. But obviously that's not what TH meant. The word hybrid can be used in more than one way!

Read his whole answer to #3 again:
The Pikeman focus is to further defining the role in combat, getting the moves balanced and giving them a role in the GCW. I want to stress that Pikeman is a Hybrid Profession - - it isn’t meant to be played is “Im a this and not that” or “Im a Warrior and not a Cleric”. SWG professions are meant to be mix and match. Pick what you want.
The dev team doesn’t want players to get tied down with the idea of being a single profession. The game was designed so players would have a greater customizability with their characters.


Obviously TH isn't talking about prerequisites for the Pikeman profession, he's talking about your character's other professions.

It's called reading comprehension. Go get some.





/emote hands Bihlbo a napkin.



3 Accounts Cancelled
starcraftWS
Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:17 am
#16

I was under the impression a "hybrid profession" was one that could be classified in two or more categories.


Smuggler - crafter/combat. Has pistol skills and makes spice.


Combat Medic - support/combat. Healer and also has offensive poisons/diseases


Despite these two examples being dependent on more than one starting profession, I would not say that all high-level professions are hybrid. Squad Leader woud be considered combat only, despite needing marksman and scout prereqs. Same with Commando. Bio-Engineer would be considered crafting only, despite its medic and scout prereqs. Bounty Hunter could be argued that it's not just combat, with the investigation tree. But after trailing your mark, you complete the mission by deathblowing them right? So I'd consider BH combat only.


Back to the point... pikeman, TKA, swordsman, fencer, rifleman, carbineer, and pistoleer... these are all elite combat professions. Not only do they not meet the above definition of a hybrid (all come from one starting profession), but I would not consider them hybrids because they have one purpose: combat.



- I support ATK people and playstyles
My baloney has a first name. It's c-o-m-b-a-t.
My baloney has a second name is u-p-g-r-a-d-e.



Two accounts cancelled due to SOE's continued idiocy
Darkscorn
Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:08 pm
#17

I don't think he made any sort of mistake in calling pikeman a hybrid profession, the sentences following this statement seem to support that. I believe this stands true for most professions, just because it doesn't require skills from 2 different trees to reach novice doesn't mean its not meant to be played as a hybrid.


The system was designed to be mix and match, you can pick strengths from other classes that can support your main combat profession, like adding medic to heal yourself, or gathering defenses from other professions.


When your character has2 or moreprofessions at the same time the end result is a hybrid character.
Envoy3113
Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:11 pm
#18

Ok, fair enough, I recend the jackass comment. I see it however that you took it apon yourself to question the reading abilitys of the people who are the most active on this board. It has less to do with the one word blunder, and more to do with a consistant run around. The statement should not have been made, if I'm a car salesman and I tell my customer that it's a Cadillac and not a GM, not only will that customer not listen to a single thing I have to say past that point, but if a supervisor heard it, he would take me back to school. Now, if you are in fact frustrated with the profession take a look back at those responses. Absorb it all. Not only were the questions not answered but a statement was made that was false. Now add the rest of the questions with the false questions and A. The profession is not being taken seriously and if we were ever fixed TH would prolly want us out of the game like the commandos. B. TH doesn't even know what a pikeman is, how in the world can he say we'll be fixed with the combat pass. C. He didn't really care about the questions, nor the response given, nor the fallout his responses generated.



Agood dealof the people that posted, responded in astonishment at the responses given to pikemen, and were in fact not pikemen. Nonetheless, TH has a job, general response is that he failed that job with the post he made. In what portion of that response do you see something that resembles any effort to adress our concerns? I saw 1 'no', a bunch of 'I don't know and I am not going to find out', and 1 statement that was false. Does he deserve the flack? IMO yes, he hasn't even attempted to respond or otherwise justify his response. If you pay attention it starts with disbeleif and graduates into anger. Angry at a job which was not done, and at most, provided a peice of fradulent information. Is it all TH's fault, no, it's a breakdown of communication, happens all the time. Do we need additional reading skills because of TH and SOE's falure to communicate and address the comunity properly, no.





There comes a time in every mans life when 86 years is just too damn long...
Soln
Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:16 pm
#19

So... Pikeman isn't a real profession? It needs to be supplemented by another elite to work? Is that honesty coming through?


I wonder: is what SOE thinking in their new combat "rework/hack" is that only hybrid classes like BH and Commando going to be able to survive and that all players will be forced-to or just told-to supplment their professions with another to play the game? Pikeman/Rifleman? like TKA/Doctor?


Wow, what crappy design. All these classes and less than a year later they have to re-do them all?





My Playerep Profile
Elder Jedi, see my PR profile for bio
Bihlbo
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:14 pm
#20

the people in red have shown ignorance about the pikeman class in the past.


Now that's new to me. Guess I missed those.


I don't think he made any sort of mistake in calling pikeman a hybrid profession, the sentences following this statement seem to support that. I believe this stands true for most professions, just because it doesn't require skills from 2 different trees to reach novice doesn't mean its not meant to be played as a hybrid.

The system was designed to be mix and match, you can pick strengths from other classes that can support your main combat profession, like adding medic to heal yourself, or gathering defenses from other professions.

When your character has 2 or more professions at the same time the end result is a hybrid character.


Exactly.


The one thing I want out of TH's next post on the subject is what profession he expects us to take along with Pikeman that would compliment our profession. I can't think of any besides doctor. Master Brawler? It's certainly not Ranger, that's for sure. The one problem I have with his answer to #3 is that needing a second profession to do well doesn't define a role for us or help us fill a niche. What he said is true and all, but it doesn't help make the profession useful. If Pikeman is meant to be a support profession, why don't we get bonuses that affect something other than polearm-battle and other combat issues?



- I support the CU and am grateful that we have a game that continues to evolve rather than stagnate. Join the positive voices!
Bihlbo
Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:34 pm
#21

if I'm a car salesman and I tell my customer that it's a Cadillac and not a GM, not only will that customer not listen to a single thing I have to say past that point, but if a supervisor heard it, he would take me back to school.


Bad analogy. Here's a better one:The car salesman tells you that the car you're looking at is a "family car" and goes on to explain how he means that it is a family car, but you have it in your head that anything that's not a minivan cannot be a family car.You're off base for chewing out the salesman.


Not only were the questions not answered but a statement was made that was false.


First of all, it wasn't false. His wording was obviously confusing, but what he said was accurate, even if it was unattractive. The questions were answeredbut sometimes you don't get what you want right away. My guess is that presenting him with the questions is going to go a long way toward bringing the profession more attention, so that next time question-and-answer rolls out, we'll like the answers more. But asking some of these questions before we know all the details about the combat pass is a waste of time.


...the fallout his responses generated.


I got the strong impression that the fallout was caused by players who need to express their frustration, and chose to take it out on TH. Take a look at the Ranger forum. That profession is far more broken than Pikeman, gets just about the same kind of answers as Pikeman does, and the players generally keep each other in good spirits and focus on fixing things rather than bellyaching like a bunch of spoiled, needy, self-important brats. Not that all of the people posting here are, far from it. But this whole forum could use some valium.


Nonetheless, TH has a job, general response is that he failed that job with the post he made.


Just remember that "general response" doesn't mean jack crap. The people that post on the forums represent less than 5% of the game's population, and only certain types of people ever bother posting or reading. I'm sometimes surprised they give us as much attention as they do.


he hasn't even attempted to respond or otherwise justify his response.


Would you? Put yourself in his shoes. He's got a lot of work to do, and here he tries to come in and help us, make us feel better about things. Answer questions he doesn't have to answer. And he gets treated like this? The fact that he hasn't just responded with "Piss off then you crybabies. You'll get what's coming to you when we feel like it if you aren't going to be constructive" says a lot about his professionalism.




- I support the CU and am grateful that we have a game that continues to evolve rather than stagnate. Join the positive voices!
antares_Kauri
Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:10 pm
#22



Bihlbo wrote:

if I'm a car salesman and I tell my customer that it's a Cadillac and not a GM, not only will that customer not listen to a single thing I have to say past that point, but if a supervisor heard it, he would take me back to school.

Bad analogy. Here's a better one: The car salesman tells you that the car you're looking at is a "family car" and goes on to explain how he means that it is a family car, but you have it in your head that anything that's not a minivan cannot be a family car. You're off base for chewing out the salesman.






Just to play the Devil's advocate because I feel like it (I understood what TH meant, I believe, he just chose a very wrong term and should have been more careful - same thing happened when he used the word "exploit" when referring to people who had 44xx CH):

The better analogy is if you have a hypothetical "universal car manual" that everyone goes by and that defines a family car as one that carries 5 or more people, and this is the definition everyone knows.Then the salesman tells you that a 2-seat truck is a family car, meaning that it's a vehicle all the family can use. Eventhough you might understand what he meant, you might question how much he really knows about that vehicle.

Also, I don't think at all that this board is full of "spoiled, needy, self-important brats."

antares
master pikeman



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"
ValleyJedi
Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:12 pm
#23

Talk about lack of reading comprehension! Don't confuse characters with professions. All characters are able to get one than one profession except maybe bounty hunters, who get them on the way to BH. This does make all CHARACTERS hybrids.


Calling a profession a hybrid is a horse of another color.


Saying that the role of a profession is also what makes it a hybrid can be a somewhat valid point if you don't understand sentance structure and context. If he had said that the role of a Pikeman is a hybrid one, then this definition would be more understandable. WRONG, but understandable. Pikemen do only one thing, and that only works if they can manage to hit more than once out of every 10 swings. If they want to re-design Pikeman to have four good lines instead of two good lines and two that pretty much do they same thing, but one of them does it less so than the other one, then we might have a hybrid role in combat. Yeah, and monkies might fly out of my butt!


Saying the profession is a hybrid can only be construed one way. It is made up of other professions or parts of them to becomethe profession. Pikeman takes only one line from only one profession and then you are training Pikeman. That is all it takes. There is no mincing of words or making up your own definitions here.


If you are trying to say that to be valid, a Pikeman HAS to combine it with another profession, then whyaren't the other professions told that? You do not HAVE to be anything other than a Pistolier if you do not want to and you will be very viable at what you do. A TKM does not have to be anything else to play his profession and have fun while still being viable at what she does.


Until the devs explain what they mean and what color the sky is in their world then we can debate this to death.
annelid0
Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:29 pm
#24


Bihlbo wrote:

Take a look at the Ranger forum. That profession is far more broken than Pikeman, gets just about the same kind of answers as Pikeman does, and the players generally keep each other in good spirits and focus on fixing things rather than bellyaching like a bunch of spoiled, needy, self-important brats.


Name calling and putting people down because they disagree with you is neither necessary nor welcome. This was a perfectly civil thread until you came in and began insulting everyone.

This all came from a simple question regarding TH's confusing usage of the term "hybrid profession". That question has been answered. There was no reason it had to turn into a flame war.

Please let this thread die

...and give me my valium.



------
Ilykerrimo
Grumpy Old Pikeman
Masochistic Wookiee

Jarx_Xun
Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:25 pm
#25

Bihlbo who are you? You are very rude.
vonbloodworth
Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:37 pm
#26

hay can i sum u the time line for pikemen realy quick.......



6 months of NOTHING in patches hot fixes or cumminaction + asked over and over what out top 5 are (once everymonth i mite add) + he comes along and gives us the opurinty to aks 10 questiosn directy to the devs (witch turned out to be only thunderheart) and were told that we got first dibs on answers + the responce to thoes answer not answering ANYTHING = about 10-15 OG (original ganster) pikemen VERY PISSED OFF!


and then you come along...and try to justifey...even thoe you have been here for what...1 month...two?..


my responce to you and your comments is simple........BLAH!







Trucegore vonbloodworth,wonderhome
Mayor/guild master

Pikeman, Polition, Merchant,Master Artisan
***** Im easy to talk to once people get to know me, but holding my personal audiences on a throne of bloody skulls tends to put them off at first. *****
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