Pikeman Archive
Thread: Ladies and Gentlemen, This is the purposed Fencer change, Please post YOUR thoughts, as a non-fencer
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Vincentarasin
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:23 am
#1
Ladies and gents, Zion, a community elder, is trying to provide a way to fix our (in his terms) greatly broken and severly under-powered profession, fencing. Here is what he purposes!:
[Startquote]
Now, Pikemen of SWG, Post your thoughts, Hold naught back, They dont belive me when I say this would so over-power fencer, that Tkm, Swordsmen, and Pikemen would not exist!
ZionHalcyon wrote:
First, let me say this:
There are those here who are happy being stick-weilders and doing puny damage compared to everyone else, and are such because they fear if we actually were made competitive, we would be nerfed. Please be sure to note these people as such when they post, as they are very obvious. And if you dare to question them, they get very insulting and defensive. I only bring up this point because such people should be left out of an honest discussion such as this, as the majority of us have expressed our displeasure at our weapon selection. So ignore these people when they post - I can't tell you to do that, but I am asking for the sake of keeping honest discussion alive in this thread regarding issues most of us feel strongly about. Thank you.
*edited for formatting to make it more readable.*
How I would rebalance the Fencer Weapons
Keep in mind, I would not mess with damage on most items... a weapons rebalance for fencer would actually be a simple matter:
AP2 Weapons
Master Sword (New)
AP 1 Weapons
Vibroblade
Ryyk Blade
Rantok
Light Foil (New)
AP0 Weapons
Survival Knife
Stone Kinfe
Dagger
Curved Sword
Stun baton
Gaffi Stick
Sword
See, now we have a balance of AP 0 and AP 1, and the AP will make up for the damage.
However, I would like to see the certifications moved up as well.
Currently, the sword, curved sword, and gaffi are all in 1 Handed weapons 1 in brawler, with the Rantok, Ryyk, and Vibroblade going down that tree. I would like to see the Ryyk and the Rantok moved up to Novice Fencer, and Curved Sword moved up to 1 Handed weapons 3, the Sword moved up to 1 Handed Weapons 2, and the Gaffi moved up to 1 handed weapons 4, along with the vibroblade moving up from 1 handed weapons 2 to 1 handed weapons 4. I would also like to see the dagger moved up to 1 Handed weapons 1, and leave the survival Knive and looted stone knife for the novice brawler.
So the shakedown for Certifications for Brawler level to Novice Fencerwould be this:
NOVICE FENCER
Stun Baton(AP 0)
Ryyk Blade (AP 1)
Rantok (AP 1)
MASTER ONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 4)
Gaffi Stick (AP 0)
Vibro Blade (AP 1)
EXPERTONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 3)
Curved Sword(AP 0)
ADVANCEDONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 2)
Sword(AP 0)
INTERMEDIATEONE HAND SWORD SPECIALIZATION (Skill Box 1)
Dagger(AP 0)
NOVICE BRAWLER
Survival Knife (AP 0)
Stone Kinfe (AP 0)
I believe this makes a lot of sense in terms of weapon progression, and also in terms of AP. With certain weapons receiving an AP of 1, we have no need to increase the damage. Also, in terms of the Rantok vs the Ryyk, I would make the Rantok have a little bit better stats, since it is a limited quest item - people will still use the Ryyk because it is more easily attainable.
This also solves our issues of wanting to use swords - by moving the Ryyk and Rantok up to AP 1, it gives us useful swords that help with the feel of the profession.
Moving into the Fencer category beyond Novice, I would like to see a Lightfoil, as Oogami put forth, but in the Advanced Box of Stances and Grips. I think it makes sense there, and it should be AP 1. Plus, it gives the fencer another sword to play with. I think the damage for the foil should range from 230min to 270 Max... Not as much damage as a gaffi, but it has the AP1 with it, plus it establishes itself as a higher tiered weapon. I think in this case we should have a different damage type as well - energy - since it essentially is a poor man's lightsaber.
Finally, the Master blade. I have said this before, but I have refined this, and here is what I think:
The Master Blade is a sword only available to a Master Fencer, and is non-tradeable. Nor can you have more than one in any of your inventories. To get another one, your only option is to destroy the first. The Master Blade will be the only fencer weapon that is AP 2. In addition, an optional component for the blade will be one DOT attack, which is given to the blade by using a DNA sample from a Bio Engineer - If the Creature sampled uses a particular DOT attack, then the blade will inherit it. It will be unlimited use, and the potency, strength, and damage will all depend on the quality of the DNA sample.
Before anyone starts saying this will bring Nerfs upon us, thus far this weapon is no different than a Nightsister lance, Grooved 2 hand sword, and countless other looted and craftable weapons that use special schematics. The only thing is that this one gets to be ours. To get the sword, you need to seek out a Fencing master NPC, who will send you on missions to complete. The last mission will be to defeat his prized pupil in front of him. You win, and he gives you aone useschematic for the Master Sword.
You take that to any weaponsmith, and they can make the sword for you (note from earlier you can also bring the DNA sample to the WS to add a DOT to the sword.) Also, once you complete the quest, you can go back to the master at any time and request a schematic, but you will only get another one a) If you do not have the master sword in your possession (yes, you need to destroy yours) and b) you must fight his prized pupil again. This will keep the number of swords in circulation down, and will also stop profiteering from the sword. *Note* When the WS makes the sword, he can only trade the sword to a master fencer, after which the sword becomes untradable).
The Master Sword will have openings for a dna sample (for DOT), a rancor tooth, AND a vibromotor, all OPTIONAL. If you make the sword with no extras, the standard damage in my eyes should be between 300 min- 370 max. All DOT related things other than use will be dependant on the creature the DNA sample is looted from, and the quality of the DNA (note - the DNA is optional, thus so is the DOT attack).
Such a blade will be for masters only, and will add to the lore of fencers.
So there you have it - a quick and easy way to rebalance fencer. Even without the 2 new weapons, the rebalance I put forward would solve a lot of weapon issues for fencer. But for those of you who are looking for more from our weapons - what do you think?
Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-20-2004 03:45 PM
Dynastar
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:45 am
#2
The thought of an AP2 fencer weapon is ludicrous. He doesn't want balance, what he wants is a weapon that lets him to anything, from PvP, to high end PvE like the Corvette. Hell, he said it himself.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
See, I would like a master weapon, but I want something effective in PVP and PVE, and particularly something effective against the baddies in the corvette. Part of the issue is that no one weapon can do it all, hence the need for the weapons overall to be rehauled in terms of damage and AP.
antares_Kauri
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:51 am
#3
If you want a 300-370 AP2 weapon automatically at the speed cap, be prepared to lose a lot of those best defenses in the game you have. That weapon would by far out-dps swordsman and pikeman, plus you'd have 3x the defenses of both classes.
antares
master pikeman
antares
master pikeman
Kaora
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:56 am
#4
This is why the minimum requirement for employment at Sony , requires an oposable thumb 
ArkMindSpear
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:57 am
#5
fencers are supposed to be dainty and french like...not highlander or sephiroth.
ArkMindSpear
Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:12 am
#7
TKA- AP 0-1(unless i had something to say about it!) VK should be AP0 ...RK AP1
Fencer- AP0-1
Swordsman- AP1-3
Pikeman- AP1-2
ruehs
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:04 am
#8
Pikeman, please do not think this is THE proposed Fencer change. This is what someone thought up. Not what is going to happen. Vincentarasin posted this to get people after Zion. Again, this is not what all fencers think, just his oppinion on what he would like to see done, even as silly as fencers getting ap2. Please pay no attention to this thread as it does nothing for you guys.
Macross Starchaser, Eclipse, Phoenix Reborn
f33d84ck
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:17 am
#9
I stopped reading the post as soon as he started talking about the Master sword. Ludicrous, totally stupid. Why would fencer get an AP2 weapon. They are fencers. LIGHT SWORDS!!! If they wanted heavy swords, then master the HEAVY SWORDSMAN profession. Ridiculous.
I am Master Pikeman/Master Fencer and Fencer is by far the most balanced profession in the game. They get High defense and lower damage, but they get the stun baton, and with acklay bones, those stun batons are ridiculous.
ScDarkKnight
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:25 am
#10
f33d84ck wrote:
I stopped reading the post as soon as he started talking about the Master sword. Ludicrous, totally stupid. Why would fencer get an AP2 weapon. They are fencers. LIGHT SWORDS!!! If they wanted heavy swords, then master the HEAVY SWORDSMAN profession. Ridiculous.
I am Master Pikeman/Master Fencer and Fencer is by far the most balanced profession in the game. They get High defense and lower damage, but they get the stun baton, and with acklay bones, those stun batons are ridiculous.
Exactly my though ... no way these guys should get AP2 weapons ..
Psykeman420-HS
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:26 am
#11
i actually think Fencer is pretty fine as is. (I am commenting not to the original poster)
It is the kind of balanced profession I'd like to see others get, and I was a Fencer for a short time.
Personally my ideal type of the things are:
Fencer as is:
High Defenses
Hard to Hit
Quick
Low Dmg
stun weapon
AP1 (standard)
add dual wielding in some form
TKA needs to:
medium dmg
AP0 (standard)
speedy
special abilities
less defensive
kinetic/heat is fine
Swordsman:
Highest dmg vs single targ
blast dmg weapon is cool
AP3 (standard)
slowest
high toughness
add focused hit type of move (this would be like a berserk that would work with specials, maybe at the cost of some wounds but do massive single strike dmg, just think like a charge-up or somethign, maybe call it Devestation)
pikeman:
Highest area attack dmg
lowest accuracy
make electricty more viable
AP2 (standard)
high melee def
add pushback/shockwave type move: could do an area push-back AOE, stunning them for a few seconds (not stun but leaving them 'froze' for like 3-5 secs or until hit)
this would give all 4 special abilities, weakenesses and strengths.
It is the kind of balanced profession I'd like to see others get, and I was a Fencer for a short time.
Personally my ideal type of the things are:
Fencer as is:
High Defenses
Hard to Hit
Quick
Low Dmg
stun weapon
AP1 (standard)
add dual wielding in some form
TKA needs to:
medium dmg
AP0 (standard)
speedy
special abilities
less defensive
kinetic/heat is fine
Swordsman:
Highest dmg vs single targ
blast dmg weapon is cool
AP3 (standard)
slowest
high toughness
add focused hit type of move (this would be like a berserk that would work with specials, maybe at the cost of some wounds but do massive single strike dmg, just think like a charge-up or somethign, maybe call it Devestation)
pikeman:
Highest area attack dmg
lowest accuracy
make electricty more viable
AP2 (standard)
high melee def
add pushback/shockwave type move: could do an area push-back AOE, stunning them for a few seconds (not stun but leaving them 'froze' for like 3-5 secs or until hit)
this would give all 4 special abilities, weakenesses and strengths.
VemaGara
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:01 am
#12
I am fine with AP1, but could accept AP2 from a rare drop or a rediculously hard-to-make schematic. (Rare is imbalancing, but that's why it's rare.)
In my reading, most fencers just want a kinetic AP1 sword on par with the gaffi. This would not overpower us in PvP, as there's already enough kinetic protection to drive the heavy swordsmen nuts, let alone the fencers. An respectable AP1 weapon would make us more viable against Corvette style opponents.
A great defence is great, but lack of victory eventually leads to death. Fencers want a better offense like swordsmen want a better defence. Our weaknesses are a little too problematic.
I'm all for acklay bones, but I don't have one of those weapons. Who does? They are out there, but I don't ever expect to own one. For those of us who don't PvP, the acklay bone stun batons don't really mean that much.
Much will change after the combat balance, I hope. If they ever put the speed caps in, then fencers can shine as FAST, while swordsmen shine as HARDER HITTING. The weapon differences will make sense. * I hope *
In my reading, most fencers just want a kinetic AP1 sword on par with the gaffi. This would not overpower us in PvP, as there's already enough kinetic protection to drive the heavy swordsmen nuts, let alone the fencers. An respectable AP1 weapon would make us more viable against Corvette style opponents.
A great defence is great, but lack of victory eventually leads to death. Fencers want a better offense like swordsmen want a better defence. Our weaknesses are a little too problematic.
I'm all for acklay bones, but I don't have one of those weapons. Who does? They are out there, but I don't ever expect to own one. For those of us who don't PvP, the acklay bone stun batons don't really mean that much.
Much will change after the combat balance, I hope. If they ever put the speed caps in, then fencers can shine as FAST, while swordsmen shine as HARDER HITTING. The weapon differences will make sense. * I hope *
CerebrusTantarrris
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:19 am
#13
did you see the min damages he was throwing out there WOW and **edit**. My uber-sliced-took-me-3-crates-to-get-it-lva(*note* non exploit so i know there are many better,simple pu slicing would have made a better weap) is like 160ish-509, his unsliced lower lv(not even going to give him the satisfaction of criticing his "master sword") has 230 min damage unsliced lol. Of all the classes fencer is the one(melee wise) who doesnt need a higher min damage weap. Min damage is pvp aspect and they have the stun batton which to put in perspective (considering 80% armor which most people have to everytihgn else) is 5x better than a weap of teh same useing keneticdamage.I forget the actual stats but isnt the stun batton like 68-110 damageunsliced and many 350ish ones with acklay bones lol.The wayarmorworks that makes the stunbatton equilivent to a 340-550weap (that kicks the pants out of ourlva) and that is unslliced and notusing there uber acklay drops.
Now on tosomething constructive. I do however believe that fencer needs a little more in the way of pve, for that i would propose making the rantok a craftable weapon. I do not know much about crafting but i know that the rantok is 150 damage in its crappy looted form and the gaffi is 98 damage in looted form. I believe gaffis are around 200 dam crafted which would lead me to believe that a crafted rantok would be about 300ish damage crafted. If it were made with a wide range that woudl be ate up by mitigation(just like all the other professions high dam weaps) than i think that would be a good addition and a fitting one to the fencer profession.
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